Would you fix this book?

Ten pages sounds a little odd. A signature would be 8 or 16 pages, not
10. Do you know if a full signature is missing? You have not
mentioned the condition of the sewing of the other signatures. Is it
intact? If so, how did the pages come to be missing? Assuming the the
B.L. reproduces the leaves, then you need to have a bookbinder
reassemble the whole. I am not familiar with the charges.

By the way, what book is it?


Francis A. Miniter


Scrooge wrote:

 >I guess fix would be the wrong word, as it will never be as good as new. I
 >have a book from 1633 that is missing it's preliminaries (i.e. title page,
 >frontis, portrait). I'm not sure how many leaves, but my guess is 10. The
 >British Library has the only other copy of this book that I can find. They
 >have a reproduction service and would charge about $30.00. Would you spend
 >the money and make the effort?
 >
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Would you fix this book? 

I'll answer you questions out of order.
 >
 > By the way, what book is it?
---

Les Ouures morales et politiques de Messire Franc?ois Bacon ... De la
version de I. Baudoin. [With an engraved portrait.]

BACON. Francis. Viscount St. Albans

pp. 848. P. Rocolet; F. Targa: Paris, 1626. 8o

The titlepage is engraved. Containing fifty-six Essays, "Observations
morales pour bien cultiuer l'esprit" from book 7 of "De Augmentis
Scientiarum," "La Sagesse mysterieuse des anciens," "Recueil d'apophtegems,"
"Tableau des couleurs ... du bien & du mal" and "Explication morale de
quelques Paraboles de Salomon."

---

Mine is the second French edition of the essays under this title published
in 1633.

I believe this is the French translation of most likely 'Essays or Councils,
Civil and Moral' first published in 1625 or less likely 'Essays Moral,
Economical, and Political'. Unlikely because, as far as I can tell, this
title was first published in 1798. They may be the same books only a name
change.


"Francis A. Miniter" <miniter RemoveThis @attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3f2ea63c_3@news3.prserv.net...
 > Ten pages sounds a little odd. A signature would be 8 or 16 pages, not
 > 10. Do you know if a full signature is missing? You have not
 > mentioned the condition of the sewing of the other signatures. Is it
 > intact? If so, how did the pages come to be missing? Assuming the the
 > B.L. reproduces the leaves, then you need to have a bookbinder
 > reassemble the whole. I am not familiar with the charges.


I am not sure how many pages are missing. There are 6 leaves 12 pages before
the first numbered page (1), Three on either side of the first stitching. I
was thinking too that there should be 8 or 16. I thought 16 since I don't
have any blanks, half title or the engraved portrait. I do have the pages:
epistre [?] (4), av lectevr [?] (3), contenvs [contents?] (4), privilege
[permission?] (1). In that order.

I think it's odd that I would be missing the same number of pages on either
side of the stitch, but I have a feeling it was rebound a long time ago. It
looks like the original boards were placed on top of the replacement ones.
The only dates I have are stamped on the spine and penciled on the ffep.

I hadn't thought about them being bound in. That's another question, bind in
or lay in loose? The front hinge does need strengthened.

Interesting Note: It has the bookplate of Granville Cunningham and notes
laid in. Cunningham was the author of 'Bacon's Secret Disclosed in
Contemporary Books'

Thanks,
Rich


 >
 >
 > Francis A. Miniter
 >
 >
 > Scrooge wrote:
 >
  > >I guess fix would be the wrong word, as it will never be as good as new.
I
  > >have a book from 1633 that is missing it's preliminaries (i.e. title
page,
  > >frontis, portrait). I'm not sure how many leaves, but my guess is 10. The
  > >British Library has the only other copy of this book that I can find.
They
  > >have a reproduction service and would charge about $30.00. Would you
spend
  > >the money and make the effort?
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Would you fix this book? 

BTW, having the British Library Catalog in book form is already paying off.


Rich

"Scrooge" <knappr.TakeThisOut@winco.net> wrote in message
news:bgn2gc$chg5$1@news3.infoave.net...
 > I'll answer you questions out of order.
  > >
  > > By the way, what book is it?
 > ---
 >
 > Les Ouures morales et politiques de Messire Franc?ois Bacon ... De la
 > version de I. Baudoin. [With an engraved portrait.]
 >
 > BACON. Francis. Viscount St. Albans
 >
 > pp. 848. P. Rocolet; F. Targa: Paris, 1626. 8o
 >
 > The titlepage is engraved. Containing fifty-six Essays, "Observations
 > morales pour bien cultiuer l'esprit" from book 7 of "De Augmentis
 > Scientiarum," "La Sagesse mysterieuse des anciens," "Recueil
d'apophtegems,"
 > "Tableau des couleurs ... du bien & du mal" and "Explication morale de
 > quelques Paraboles de Salomon."
 >
 > ---
 >
 > Mine is the second French edition of the essays under this title published
 > in 1633.
 >
 > I believe this is the French translation of most likely 'Essays or
Councils,
 > Civil and Moral' first published in 1625 or less likely 'Essays Moral,
 > Economical, and Political'. Unlikely because, as far as I can tell, this
 > title was first published in 1798. They may be the same books only a name
 > change.
 >
 >
 > "Francis A. Miniter" <miniter.TakeThisOut@attglobal.net> wrote in message
 > news:3f2ea63c_3@news3.prserv.net...
  > > Ten pages sounds a little odd. A signature would be 8 or 16 pages, not
  > > 10. Do you know if a full signature is missing? You have not
  > > mentioned the condition of the sewing of the other signatures. Is it
  > > intact? If so, how did the pages come to be missing? Assuming the the
  > > B.L. reproduces the leaves, then you need to have a bookbinder
  > > reassemble the whole. I am not familiar with the charges.
 >
 >
 > I am not sure how many pages are missing. There are 6 leaves 12 pages
before
 > the first numbered page (1), Three on either side of the first stitching.
I
 > was thinking too that there should be 8 or 16. I thought 16 since I don't
 > have any blanks, half title or the engraved portrait. I do have the pages:
 > epistre [?] (4), av lectevr [?] (3), contenvs [contents?] (4), privilege
 > [permission?] (1). In that order.
 >
 > I think it's odd that I would be missing the same number of pages on
either
 > side of the stitch, but I have a feeling it was rebound a long time ago.
It
 > looks like the original boards were placed on top of the replacement ones.
 > The only dates I have are stamped on the spine and penciled on the ffep.
 >
 > I hadn't thought about them being bound in. That's another question, bind
in
 > or lay in loose? The front hinge does need strengthened.
 >
 > Interesting Note: It has the bookplate of Granville Cunningham and notes
 > laid in. Cunningham was the author of 'Bacon's Secret Disclosed in
 > Contemporary Books'
 >
 > Thanks,
 > Rich
 >
 >
  > >
  > >
  > > Francis A. Miniter
  > >
  > >
  > > Scrooge wrote:
  > >
   > > >I guess fix would be the wrong word, as it will never be as good as
new.
 > I
   > > >have a book from 1633 that is missing it's preliminaries (i.e. title
 > page,
   > > >frontis, portrait). I'm not sure how many leaves, but my guess is 10.
The
   > > >British Library has the only other copy of this book that I can find.
 > They
   > > >have a reproduction service and would charge about $30.00. Would you
 > spend
   > > >the money and make the effort?
   > > >
   > > >
   > > >
   > > >
  > >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Would you fix this book? 

"Scrooge" <knappr.RemoveThis@winco.net> wrote in message news:<bgls4d$bqj7$1@news3.infoave.net>...

 > I guess fix would be the wrong word, as it will never be as good as new. I
 > have a book from 1633 that is missing it's preliminaries (i.e. title page,
 > frontis, portrait). I'm not sure how many leaves, but my guess is 10. The
 > British Library has the only other copy of this book that I can find. They
 > have a reproduction service and would charge about $30.00. Would you spend
 > the money and make the effort?



I have a first edition (first state) of John Dryden's *The Hind and
the Panther* (London, 1687). My copy has some flaws: it is disbound,
the margins are pretty short (but there is no loss of text), the first
prelim. has a closed tear of about 4 cm, and the last page has been
damaged with loss of about 4 lines of text in the center of the page.
The only other copy (and a very nice copy it is) I've been able to
find for sale is described here:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.felcone.com/bulletin.htm" target="_blank">http://www.felcone.com/bulletin.htm</a>

I console myself with the fact that I paid only about 1/14 of the
price asked by Mr. Felcone.

I am preparing to have my copy rehabilitated: before rebinding in full
leather, my binder is going to repair the tear and is going to restore
the damaged text, with the help of a facsimile from the Folger
Shakespeare Library, which has a photographic reproduction service:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.folger.edu/library/collect.asp" target="_blank">http://www.folger.edu/library/collect.asp</a>

Once all those things are done, I imagine my copy will be worth about
3x what I paid for it. To me, that's worth it.


And, as a general proposition, I am all in favor of rehabilitating
such books with minor injuries. Which is not to say that I don't
measure cost. In fact, I recently took a book to my binder for
rebinding. She quoted me a price. I hopped online found another copy
in much better condition that was cheaper than the cost of the
rebinding alone! I purchased that copy and resold my damaged copy and
came out way ahead. So a little financial calculus is not out of
place either.

Good luck.

William M. Klimon
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.gateofbliss.com" target="_blank">http://www.gateofbliss.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Would you fix this book? 

 >"Scrooge" <knappr.DeleteThis@winco.net> wrote in message
 >news:<bgls4d$bqj7$1@news3.infoave.net>...
 >
  >> I guess fix would be the wrong word, as it will never be as good as new. I
  >> have a book from 1633 that is missing it's preliminaries (i.e. title page,
  >> frontis, portrait). I'm not sure how many leaves, but my guess is 10. The
  >> British Library has the only other copy of this book that I can find. They
  >> have a reproduction service and would charge about $30.00. Would you spend
  >> the money and make the effort?

You'd be upping the number of usable copies of a 17th-century book. I think
that is an important service. I take it the reproduction leaves will be on acid
free paper and all that?

--Helen<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Would you fix this book? 

"H Schinske" <hschinske.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030805160800.19750.00000056@mb-m23.aol.com...
  > >"Scrooge" <knappr.DeleteThis@winco.net> wrote in message
  > >news:<bgls4d$bqj7$1@news3.infoave.net>...
  > >
   > >> I guess fix would be the wrong word, as it will never be as good as
new. I
   > >> have a book from 1633 that is missing it's preliminaries (i.e. title
page,
   > >> frontis, portrait). I'm not sure how many leaves, but my guess is 10.
The
   > >> British Library has the only other copy of this book that I can find.
They
   > >> have a reproduction service and would charge about $30.00. Would you
spend
   > >> the money and make the effort?
 >
 > You'd be upping the number of usable copies of a 17th-century book. I
think
 > that is an important service. I take it the reproduction leaves will be on
acid
 > free paper and all that?
 >
 > --Helen

I will ask. If not, I would think the copies I receive could then be copied
to acid-free paper.

Rich<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Would you fix this book? 

Scrooge wrote:

 > I guess fix would be the wrong word, as it will never be as good as new. I
 > have a book from 1633 that is missing it's preliminaries (i.e. title page,
 > frontis, portrait). I'm not sure how many leaves, but my guess is 10. The
 > British Library has the only other copy of this book that I can find. They
 > have a reproduction service and would charge about $30.00. Would you
 > spend the money and make the effort?

(This thread came up while I was away.) As a matter of principle, yes, I
would replace the missing text. Just having it laid in would be sufficient
(trim the edges so they don't stick out from the rest of the book). If the
copies come printed on one side only, recopy them so the pages are
double-sided. Even better, recopy everything onto paper that is large enough
to fold in the middle, and lay it in that way. A couple of easily-removed
stitches wouldn't hurt, to hold it in place, but I wouldn't glue it in.

If you are not sure what was recto and what verso in the original page
layout, find a library that has Early English Books on microfilm and check
it out.

On the whole, I would opt for keeping repairs and restoration to a minimum -
a kind of last resort - but it's a different matter when it comes to missing
text. As Helen says, "You'd be upping the number of usable copies of a
17th-century book". That's worth doing in itself.

--
John
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://rarebooksinjapan.com" target="_blank">http://rarebooksinjapan.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Would you fix this book?