Child Morgan- Spoiler

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:49:31 -0500, Steve Angers
<sjangers.RemoveThis@sover.net> wrote:

>> Well jeez, what didja expect--the Childe LORIS trilogy???? =o)
>
> Now there's a disturbing concept! I hesitate to even imagine what that poor
> soul's childhood must have been like.
>
> It's a pleasure to wander back through this group, after a brief visit four
> or five years ago, to see the discussion still alive and well, as well as to
> see some familiar names from that previous visit. I've checked in from time
> to time in recent years, but never at a time when there seemed to be much
> activity. This new book seems to have sparked a resurgence of interest and
> that's great to see.

Actually, I wandered back in shortly before CM was announced, by
coincidence (I was wondering about settings of the Adsum Done, having
reread the early books). And then stayed, this group has (for me) about
the right traffic level and is remarkably low in spam and other 'noise'.

>> Me, I can't help feel that THIS should have been the first book in the
>> trilogy. And it's still really more about Alaric's parents and Donal
>> Haldane than it is about Alaric himself. KK's going to have a LOT of
>> his life to cover in book three.
>
> I suspect that ITKS should have been condensed a bit and combined with CM as
> the first book of the trilogy. Perhaps Ms. Kurtz' plan is to tell the story
> of Morgan assiting Brion into his full powers and the defeat of the Marluk
> as the third and final chapter of this story, but as a fan I would prefer to
> see that as the second book, followed by a third which fleshes out the man
> Morgan is at the start of the Chronicles of the Deryni, gives us a closer
> look at the society of Gwynedd at that time, and an early look a those who
> feature prominently in the Chronicles. The Chronicles, for all that it was
> the powerful start of a story which has kept me engaged with this fictional
> world for almost thirty years, was a rough early work and it would be nice
> to see a more complete picture of the world in which it was set.

Did I see somewhere that KK is revising the Chronicles for re-issue,
presumably to be more consistent with the later-written books?

>> CM's a better book than ITKS, yes. More cohesive. But I think it
>> should have covered more of Alaric's childhood. And I still feel a
>> certain degree of emotional disengagement on KK's part that I did not
>> sense with her earlier books.
>
> I agree that there is an element of detachment which eventually crept into
> this series, Melissa. For me, King Javan's Year was the last powerful
> writing about this world. The Bastard Prince had a really interesting
> ending, one which I felt very intelligently established the premise for how
> such exteme intolerence for the Deryni could exist at the time of the start
> of the Chronicles without the Deryni having been destroyed or driven out of
> Gwynedd in that two hundred year period, but the overall work still seemed a
> rather faint shadow of KJY and earlier books in the series.

I think that Harrowing of Gwynedd is the pinnacle of that set, for me,
but tastes vary. I agree that by TBP it was losing some involvement.

> I'm sure it becomes very difficult to write about characters and events
> which are completely known to you, and similarly known to many of your
> readers, with any strong feeling of interest and discovery, or with much
> passion. I thought Ms. Kurtz did a very commendable job in making The
> Harrowing of Gwynedd and KJY so interesting and compelling when we all knew
> going in that this just wasn't going to end well. Her characters were
> strong and interesting, there were engaging plot lines and twists, and the
> feeling of discovery was strong even though the eventual outcome of the
> stories was anticipated.

I would like to hear a lot more about Camber's early life, the mother of
his children and their growing up. Especially Evaine (OK, I admit that
I'm half in love with Evaine <g>).

> Some of that strength of writing seemed to go away with TBP, and subsequent
> works in this series just haven't come close to earlier works, in my
> opinion. ITKS and CM, aside from following the broad plot lines already
> laid out in previous works, seem to focus far too much on too many
> characters and relationships to suite my taste. We get an awful lot of
> detail about trivial characters, many of whom really don't reappear after
> they are introduced to us, to the point where it starts to becoming
> confusing to my limited mental faculties. I think the author may be sharing
> the details of this exceptional world she has created as a substitute for
> any real passion or engagement with the central story line.

That's certainly a big problem with ITKS, there were far too many
characters and way too many with very similar names (elsewhere I
commented about countless characters commencing with 'C' -- OK, I'll
stop the alliteration already!). I could have done with a pull-out hart
of them to work out who was which and related to whom.

> I enjoyed the days when characters like Morgan and Arilan shared
> similar goals but had very different views regarding how those goals
> should be advanced. There was some interesting additional plot
> tension in wondering if the good guys could overcome the bad guys and,
> if so, whether they might not do so because they were too busy
> disagreeing with each other. I also tend to believe that it isn't a
> shortcoming if the author doesn't make every character's motivations,
> thought process and plans perfectly clear to the reader. I don't need
> to know everything that Alyce, Kenneth or whoever might be thinking,
> or everything that's motivating them, or even that their knowledge of
> their situation is perfect. Characters with flaws and conflicts are
> fun and interesting. Wondering what they know, think or what's
> motivating them can be half the fun of exploring a fictional world.
> It makes what they might do next less predicable. That makes the
> story more interesting.

Yes, leave something for our imaginations...

> Anyway, enough of that rant. I continue to be interested in this
> wonderful series of novels, whatever my petty frustrations with
> current works, and I have no doubt that I'll be one of the first in
> line, twenty bucks (or whatever) clutched in my paw, awaiting the
> arrival of the next installment. I'll also be interested in getting
> together again with you all, however briefly, to share our common
> appreciation for work that spans more than thirty years and resonates
> so richly for so many of us.

I enjoy them, and continue to do so. I'm looking forward to the next,
and whatever comes after, and just hope that there isn't as long to
wait...

Chris C

I guess I have a different perspective on the series. While I don't
disagree with your analysis, KJY was probably one of if not the best
book(s) in the entire series, BP while a good story explaining how the
Haldanes got out from under the thumbs of the regents who were no
longer regents I didn't find as strong a story as KJY but it was still
an enjoyable read. KKB I think Katherine wrote to pacify all of us who
were miffed with the ending of QSC. KKB took me several readings to
get to where I thought it was an OK story. Other than getting a closer
look at Torenthi doings/court I thought the book wrapped up too many
things too neatly and convienently. The proverbial "and they lived
happily ever after" story

Original premise as I understood CM trilogy was to cover time from
Morgan's birth to where he rides off to Cardosa and Brion and company
go hunting. Personally I couldn't see a whole trilogy centering around
Morgan but that is just me. So when ITKS came out and he didn't show
up until the end I was ok with it. I thought Katherine did a much
better job at spanning the years than say what was the book- Two Crowns
for America which I found a prefectly abominable book. She gave us a
flavor of Gwynedd generally at peace- boring I admit. She introduced
us to a lot of characters- true probably too many compared to what has
already been written. Marie, Zoe, Se`, and several others are just
props and the story probably wouldn't have suffered if they weren't
there. The whole story was about how Alyce and Kenneth came together
and how Alaric wound up as Duke of Corwyn and Brion's personal aide.
Could we have done without the convent side lines, the Queens trip to
bury her mother, sure. In reading the chats, ITKS took a long time to
write, lot gong on in her life and I just got the impression she
really couldn't get into the story- at one point she was going to do
away with Marie entirely and then changed her mind. Somewhere in this
time she and DTH came up with a plot for another Adept book which
seemed to spark Katherine more than ITKS. Could she have started the
trilogy with CM and back filled the history sure but I think in some
ways we would have missed knowing some good characters- Alyce and Donal
for sure. And for a book that was to cover a long period of time,
indepth characters like we are use to is impossible. So was it a great
book no, was it a nice read, kept me entertained yes.

CM I found to be tighter but much too short of a novel but I agree with
where she ended the story. There was no plot thread to carry it past
Brion's coronation. Could she have built up some things probably but it
probably wouldn't have been as tight of a story. I personnally think
that Donal's exit was just too easy for such a strong character even if
he was old. The next probable thread as far as having intrigue is the
Marluk period- the rebellion in Eastmarch Oliver De Nore I think will
be archbishop by then, Morgan will already be a squire to the king,
Loris should be raising his head. Jehanna will be around. Other fun
times and she could very conviently end the story with Kelson's birth.
Which of course all means that because I think it would be a good
starting point it probably won't as Katherine keeps surprising me on
where a book is going.

Now if she had wanted to write three books, one being what we have in
CM, one revolving a period with the Marluk, and one towards the falling
apart with things in Torenth- backfilling within the stories some of
the more important history that would have made a equally good trilogy
and possibly a better one. For sure it would have given all the Morgan
lover's out there a sufficient dose of him. I don't think that was
what she originally had in mind and we the readers can be just as bad
in that we want to know every minute detail that went on in a
characters life and when we don't get that there is bound to be some
disappointment. I know originally ACE wanted the books once a year
which given Katherine's writing speed wasn't going to happen. So the
vision of an editor standing over her with a whip may not be far from
the fact. On ITKS Katherine was sending chapters as she finished the
final polish to the editor. Now she is basically homeless so wouldn't
imagine she will start on the third book until she gets settled so
unfortunately she may be rushed again. Hope not.

She has been writing about the Deryni for over 36 years now and with
the exception of four non-Deryni novels she has only been writing about
the Deryni. Don't know how her team up with DTH works- but normally
the junior writer writes the story from a joint plot and then the
senior writer fleshes out, smooths out, etc so how much of the Adept
and the templer stories are KK's and how much is DTH I can't say. Any
way after so many years she may need a break from the Deryni to
recharge her battery. I still would like to see the story about 948
and maybe one around 1025 but definitely can wait while she recharges.
The Orin and Jodatha book I have a hard time imagining how to generate
a novel on them fascinating as they may be for things Deryni as they
may be so if it never gets written, I wouldn't be heart broken.

jerry