Thrint Question

"louann_m@yahoo.com" wrote:

> On Jan 6, 6:36 am, Matthias Warkus <War....RemoveThis@students.uni-marburg.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Well, maybe. Maybe he's a genius among his peers. Anyhow less smart ones
> > wouldn't have survived the same situation, so there is a degree of
> > selection, and thus, Kzanol's achievement tells us not much about Thrint
> > intelligence in general. However, he *himself* notes that neither he nor
> > anyone else ever came up with the idea that relativity might be what's
> > skewing his mechanical watch and comes to the conclusion that his
> > species maybe wasn't all that bright.
>
> Was it Kzanol who realized that, or was it whatsisname-the-human
> running Kzanol's memories on a better processor?

The Kzanol who was in control of Larry Greenberg.
 >> Stay informed about: Thrint Question 

David DeLaney wrote:

> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >To put down the Tnuctipun uprising, the Thrint elders built a super
> >duper amplifier helmet and used it to order everyone in the galaxy to
> >commit suicide, including themselves. Why didn't the Thrint apply the
> >suicide order only to the Tnuctipun? ("All Tnuctipun commit suicide at
> >once. All other slaves take a one day nap").
>
> Because the thrint, like some other people I could think of, were Not Very
> Smart. Plus which, I'm fairly sure the Thrint did NOT build it themselves,
> but controlled Tnuctipun into doing so ... so did not actually know how it
> worked or how to alter things so it would only apply to one species. And
> why bother? All the other species were slaves anyway... Considering
> consequences was another thing the Thrint were Not Good At, as shown in
> several other places in the canon.

Since the Tnuctipun were the ones who were rebelling, I don't believe that the
Thrintun would have used them to build the Super Duper Amplifier (TM).

I had thought that the Thrintun were the ones who sent the suicide order. The super
helmet merely amplified it so that the telepathic order would be "heard" all over
the galaxy. I see no reason why the Thrintun couldn't have "said" with their minds
"All Tnuctipun commit suicide. All other slaves take a one day nap so that we can
frisk them for hidden weapons or telepathy shields".
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On 7 Jan, 16:15, Tim Bruening <tsbru....RemoveThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> David DeLaney wrote:
> > Tim Bruening <tsbru....RemoveThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > >To put down the Tnuctipun uprising, the Thrint elders built a super
> > >duper amplifier helmet and used it to order everyone in the galaxy to
> > >commit suicide, including themselves.  Why didn't the Thrint apply the
> > >suicide order only to the Tnuctipun?  ("All Tnuctipun commit suicide at
> > >once.  All other slaves take a one day nap").
>
> > Because the thrint, like some other people I could think of, were Not Very
> > Smart. Plus which, I'm fairly sure the Thrint did NOT build it themselves,
> > but controlled Tnuctipun into doing so ... so did not actually know how it
> > worked or how to alter things so it would only apply to one species. And
> > why bother? All the other species were slaves anyway... Considering
> > consequences was another thing the Thrint were Not Good At, as shown in
> > several other places in the canon.
>
> Since the Tnuctipun were the ones who were rebelling, I don't believe that the
> Thrintun would have used them to build the Super Duper Amplifier (TM).
>
> I had thought that the Thrintun were the ones who sent the suicide order.  The super
> helmet merely amplified it so that the telepathic order would be "heard" all over
> the galaxy.  I see no reason why the Thrintun couldn't have "said" with their minds
> "All Tnuctipun commit suicide.  All other slaves take a one day nap so that we can
> frisk them for hidden weapons or telepathy shields".

We do already know that LOTS of things the Thrint took for granted
were Tnuctipun traps , like banshee and sunflowers, so its not hard to
see how the thrint might see them ALL as traps or they could be,
better get rid of them all , and then of course as everyone has
pointed out not really though about what hapens the next day
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darklensman wrote:

> On 7 Jan, 16:15, Tim Bruening <tsbru....RemoveThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > David DeLaney wrote:
> > > Tim Bruening <tsbru....RemoveThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > > >To put down the Tnuctipun uprising, the Thrint elders built a super
> > > >duper amplifier helmet and used it to order everyone in the galaxy to
> > > >commit suicide, including themselves. Why didn't the Thrint apply the
> > > >suicide order only to the Tnuctipun? ("All Tnuctipun commit suicide at
> > > >once. All other slaves take a one day nap").
> >
> > > Because the thrint, like some other people I could think of, were Not Very
> > > Smart. Plus which, I'm fairly sure the Thrint did NOT build it themselves,
> > > but controlled Tnuctipun into doing so ... so did not actually know how it
> > > worked or how to alter things so it would only apply to one species. And
> > > why bother? All the other species were slaves anyway... Considering
> > > consequences was another thing the Thrint were Not Good At, as shown in
> > > several other places in the canon.
> >
> > Since the Tnuctipun were the ones who were rebelling, I don't believe that the
> > Thrintun would have used them to build the Super Duper Amplifier (TM).
> >
> > I had thought that the Thrintun were the ones who sent the suicide order. The super
> > helmet merely amplified it so that the telepathic order would be "heard" all over
> > the galaxy. I see no reason why the Thrintun couldn't have "said" with their minds
> > "All Tnuctipun commit suicide. All other slaves take a one day nap so that we can
> > frisk them for hidden weapons or telepathy shields".
>
> We do already know that LOTS of things the Thrint took for granted
> were Tnuctipun traps , like banshee and sunflowers, so its not hard to
> see how the thrint might see them ALL as traps or they could be,
> better get rid of them all , and then of course as everyone has
> pointed out not really though about what hapens the next day

I got the impression in "World of P'Tavvs" that even the Thrintun were ordered to commit
suicide!
 >> Stay informed about: Thrint Question 

On 7 Jan, 17:23, Tim Bruening <tsbru....TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> darklensman wrote:
> > On 7 Jan, 16:15, Tim Bruening <tsbru....TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > > David DeLaney wrote:
> > > > Tim Bruening <tsbru....TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > > > >To put down the Tnuctipun uprising, the Thrint elders built a super
> > > > >duper amplifier helmet and used it to order everyone in the galaxy to
> > > > >commit suicide, including themselves.  Why didn't the Thrint apply the
> > > > >suicide order only to the Tnuctipun?  ("All Tnuctipun commit suicide at
> > > > >once.  All other slaves take a one day nap").
>
> > > > Because the thrint, like some other people I could think of, were Not Very
> > > > Smart. Plus which, I'm fairly sure the Thrint did NOT build it themselves,
> > > > but controlled Tnuctipun into doing so ... so did not actually know how it
> > > > worked or how to alter things so it would only apply to one species. And
> > > > why bother? All the other species were slaves anyway... Considering
> > > > consequences was another thing the Thrint were Not Good At, as shown in
> > > > several other places in the canon.
>
> > > Since the Tnuctipun were the ones who were rebelling, I don't believe that the
> > > Thrintun would have used them to build the Super Duper Amplifier (TM).
>
> > > I had thought that the Thrintun were the ones who sent the suicide order.  The super
> > > helmet merely amplified it so that the telepathic order would be "heard" all over
> > > the galaxy.  I see no reason why the Thrintun couldn't have "said" with their minds
> > > "All Tnuctipun commit suicide.  All other slaves take a one day nap so that we can
> > > frisk them for hidden weapons or telepathy shields".
>
> > We do already know that LOTS of things the Thrint took for granted
> > were Tnuctipun traps , like banshee and sunflowers, so its not hard to
> > see how the thrint might see them ALL as traps or they could be,
> > better get rid of them all , and then of course as everyone has
> > pointed out not really though about what hapens the next day
>
> I got the impression in "World of P'Tavvs" that even the Thrintun were ordered to commit
> suicide!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nah, they turn into Gonks
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In article <4780C650.E5C811B5.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening wrote:
> Beginning of "World of P'tavvs":
[SNIP spoilers]
> I consider the above actions to be an indication that Kzanol is
> fairly smart. The only thing he missed was the possibility of one of
> Neptune's moons getting in the way!
>
How many billions of Thrint were there?

In human intelligence testing, IQ tests are related to a Gaussian
distribution of mean 100 and standard deviation 15. So, on a world of 10
billion people, you'd expect 5,000,000,000 to have IQ greater than 100,
1586552539 to have IQ greater than 115, 227,501,319 to have IQ greater than
130, 13,498,980 to have IQ greater than 145, 316,712 to have IQ greater than
160, 2,867 to have IQ greater than 175, and 10 to have IQ greater than 190.
Opinions vary in detail, but the borderlands of genius are generally put a bit
below 160. So it's perfectly feasible for Kzanol to have been a Thrint genius
in space, even if they were a spectacularly stupid species. As long as there
were enough of them.
Actually, "Ptavvs" implies that Earth/ F3 was well out from the centre
of the Thrint civilisation (and presumably, population). And Known Space has
been hit by Kzanol, by the inhabitants of the Wunderland ship, whose name I've
forgotten, and is within striking distance of the overgrown amplifier helmet.
Their population must have been comparable to the stars in the galaxy.

--
Aidan Karley,
Written at Mon, 07 Jan 2008 01:00 GMT, but posted later.
"Please turn your monitors off when you leave the building. Not only does it
save power, but the flickering of the monitors annoys the pterosaur."
 >> Stay informed about: Thrint Question 

In article <flqhvo$17h1$1@news.nnrp.de>, Matthias Warkus wrote:
> However, he *himself* notes that neither he nor
> anyone else ever came up with the idea that relativity might be what's
> skewing his mechanical watch and comes to the conclusion that his
> species maybe wasn't all that bright.
>
Relativity wasn't skewing his mechanical watch. Relativity was
screwing with time, which his watch was accurately reflecting.
Human's intuitive expectation of time to continue uniformly
regardless of our actions is a wrong intuition based on our inability to
accelerate at significant rates for any non-trivial period of time.

--
Aidan Karley,
Written at Mon, 07 Jan 2008 01:27 GMT, but posted later.
"Please turn your monitors off when you leave the building. Not only
does it save power, but the flickering of the monitors annoys the
pterosaur."
 >> Stay informed about: Thrint Question 

Aidan Karley wrote:

> In article <4780C650.E5C811B5.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening wrote:
> > Beginning of "World of P'tavvs":
> [SNIP spoilers]
> > I consider the above actions to be an indication that Kzanol is
> > fairly smart. The only thing he missed was the possibility of one of
> > Neptune's moons getting in the way!
> >
> How many billions of Thrint were there?
>
> In human intelligence testing, IQ tests are related to a Gaussian
> distribution of mean 100 and standard deviation 15. So, on a world of 10
> billion people, you'd expect 5,000,000,000 to have IQ greater than 100,
> 1586552539 to have IQ greater than 115, 227,501,319 to have IQ greater than
> 130, 13,498,980 to have IQ greater than 145, 316,712 to have IQ greater than
> 160, 2,867 to have IQ greater than 175, and 10 to have IQ greater than 190.
> Opinions vary in detail, but the borderlands of genius are generally put a bit
> below 160. So it's perfectly feasible for Kzanol to have been a Thrint genius
> in space, even if they were a spectacularly stupid species. As long as there
> were enough of them.
> Actually, "Ptavvs" implies that Earth/ F3 was well out from the centre
> of the Thrint civilisation (and presumably, population). And Known Space has
> been hit by Kzanol, by the inhabitants of the Wunderland ship, whose name I've
> forgotten, and is within striking distance of the overgrown amplifier helmet.
> Their population must have been comparable to the stars in the galaxy.

Inhabitants of the Wunderland ship: The Pak?
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darklensman wrote:

> On 7 Jan, 17:23, Tim Bruening <tsbru....DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > darklensman wrote:
> > > On 7 Jan, 16:15, Tim Bruening <tsbru....DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > > > David DeLaney wrote:
> > > > > Tim Bruening <tsbru....DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > > > > >To put down the Tnuctipun uprising, the Thrint elders built a super
> > > > > >duper amplifier helmet and used it to order everyone in the galaxy to
> > > > > >commit suicide, including themselves. Why didn't the Thrint apply the
> > > > > >suicide order only to the Tnuctipun? ("All Tnuctipun commit suicide at
> > > > > >once. All other slaves take a one day nap").
> >
> > > > > Because the thrint, like some other people I could think of, were Not Very
> > > > > Smart. Plus which, I'm fairly sure the Thrint did NOT build it themselves,
> > > > > but controlled Tnuctipun into doing so ... so did not actually know how it
> > > > > worked or how to alter things so it would only apply to one species. And
> > > > > why bother? All the other species were slaves anyway... Considering
> > > > > consequences was another thing the Thrint were Not Good At, as shown in
> > > > > several other places in the canon.
> >
> > > > Since the Tnuctipun were the ones who were rebelling, I don't believe that the
> > > > Thrintun would have used them to build the Super Duper Amplifier (TM).
> >
> > > > I had thought that the Thrintun were the ones who sent the suicide order. The super
> > > > helmet merely amplified it so that the telepathic order would be "heard" all over
> > > > the galaxy. I see no reason why the Thrintun couldn't have "said" with their minds
> > > > "All Tnuctipun commit suicide. All other slaves take a one day nap so that we can
> > > > frisk them for hidden weapons or telepathy shields".
> >
> > > We do already know that LOTS of things the Thrint took for granted
> > > were Tnuctipun traps , like banshee and sunflowers, so its not hard to
> > > see how the thrint might see them ALL as traps or they could be,
> > > better get rid of them all , and then of course as everyone has
> > > pointed out not really though about what hapens the next day
> >
> > I got the impression in "World of P'Tavvs" that even the Thrintun were ordered to commit
> > suicide!- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Nah, they turn into Gonks

What is a Gonk?
 >> Stay informed about: Thrint Question 

Sea Wasp wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
> > To put down the Tnuctipun uprising, the Thrint elders built a super
> > duper amplifier helmet and used it to order everyone in the galaxy to
> > commit suicide, including themselves. Why didn't the Thrint apply the
> > suicide order only to the Tnuctipun? ("All Tnuctipun commit suicide at
> > once. All other slaves take a one day nap").
>
> The Thrintun were powerful.
>
> They were also only slightly brighter than the average ape. In other
> words, dumb as posts. With the Power, they didn't HAVE to be very bright.

I defy any ape to operate a space ship!
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Aidan Karley wrote:

> In article <flqhvo$17h1$1@news.nnrp.de>, Matthias Warkus wrote:
>> However, he *himself* notes that neither he nor
>> anyone else ever came up with the idea that relativity might be what's
>> skewing his mechanical watch and comes to the conclusion that his
>> species maybe wasn't all that bright.
>
> Relativity wasn't skewing his mechanical watch. Relativity was
> screwing with time, which his watch was accurately reflecting.

Wow, really? Totally missed his point, there, did you?

> Human's intuitive expectation of time to continue uniformly
> regardless of our actions is a wrong intuition based on our inability to
> accelerate at significant rates for any non-trivial period of time.

.... and missed it in two ways, apparently.

--
Erik Max Francis && max RemoveThis @alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM, Y!M erikmaxfrancis
Heaven ne'er helps the man who will not act.
-- Sophocles
 >> Stay informed about: Thrint Question 

Tim Bruening wrote:

> I got the impression in "World of P'Tavvs" that even the Thrintun were ordered to commit
> suicide!

Then you read really poorly.

--
Erik Max Francis && max DeleteThis @alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM, Y!M erikmaxfrancis
Heaven ne'er helps the man who will not act.
-- Sophocles
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Aidan Karley <name1_name2.RemoveThis@email.provider.invalid> wrote in
news:VA.000014c5.0b7ed293@email.provider.invalid:

> In human intelligence testing, IQ tests are related to a Gaussian
> distribution of mean 100 and standard deviation 15.

No they aren't, unless you mean a theoretical postulation.
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