Is Kitty Toast?

The Black Guardian <blakgard DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:

: No, she wasn't. No one knew anything about any baby when they were
: discussing the diaries. They just needed the diaries to keep the
: Marauders/Acolytes from getting them. We don't know how much time
: elapsed between X-MEN #204 (Kitty's last appearance outside of
: ASTONISHING) and the start of Messiah Complex. It likely wasn't long,
: but it definitely could have been long enough for the ASTONISHING arc
: to take place.

That's because Astonishing happened BEFORE X-men #204, not after. It's
the first appearance of Scott's team in the book for months, definitely
a prelude to MC. It doesn't make sense to jam Astonishing (which began
what, almost 4 years ago now?) in between #204 and #205.

: The big problem is that ASTONISHING can't very well take place after
: Messiah, since the mansion is unlivable and the kids will be leaving.

I think it's more likely that it took place back around Uncanny #475.

: > They were all just back from Astonishing (which apparently lasted
: > no longer than a week, all told).

: There was no reference to just getting back from ASTONISHING.

Yet Peter was there, and he was discovered during Astonishing. In fact
it was the exact Astonishing lineup.

shawn h.
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:51:29 +0000 (UTC), Shawn H
<shill.TakeThisOut@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:


>I think it's more likely that it took place back around Uncanny #475.
>

Are you saying the entire Astonishing run takes place around then, or
just the Breakworld part of it?

I can't remember what happened in Uncanny #475. If the entire
Astonishing run happened then, how does that jive with the Genoshan
Excalibur series, because that happened around the Danger storyline.

P.
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

Shawn H <shill RemoveThis @fas.harvard.edu> wrote in
news:fnni21$kve$2@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu:

> The Black Guardian <blakgard RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:
>
>: No, she wasn't. No one knew anything about any baby when they were
>: discussing the diaries. They just needed the diaries to keep the
>: Marauders/Acolytes from getting them. We don't know how much time
>: elapsed between X-MEN #204 (Kitty's last appearance outside of
>: ASTONISHING) and the start of Messiah Complex. It likely wasn't long,
>: but it definitely could have been long enough for the ASTONISHING arc
>: to take place.
>
> That's because Astonishing happened BEFORE X-men #204, not after. It's
> the first appearance of Scott's team in the book for months,
> definitely a prelude to MC. It doesn't make sense to jam Astonishing
> (which began what, almost 4 years ago now?) in between #204 and #205.

I'm not so sure. Armor wasn't around at the beginning of Messiah
Complex but was there by the end. While it doesn't make sense to mash
the AXM arc in there, it is possible it was done anyway.

>: The big problem is that ASTONISHING can't very well take place after
>: Messiah, since the mansion is unlivable and the kids will be leaving.
>
> I think it's more likely that it took place back around Uncanny #475.

I think it's more likely it doesn't fit anywhere at all but Marvel is
going to pretend like it does.

>: > They were all just back from Astonishing (which apparently lasted
>: > no longer than a week, all told).
>
>: There was no reference to just getting back from ASTONISHING.
>
> Yet Peter was there, and he was discovered during Astonishing. In fact
> it was the exact Astonishing lineup.

Exactly.
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

Shawn H <shill DeleteThis @fas.harvard.edu> wrote in news:fnni21$kve$2
@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu:

> The Black Guardian <blakgard DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:
>
>: No, she wasn't. No one knew anything about any baby when they were
>: discussing the diaries. They just needed the diaries to keep the
>: Marauders/Acolytes from getting them. We don't know how much time
>: elapsed between X-MEN #204 (Kitty's last appearance outside of
>: ASTONISHING) and the start of Messiah Complex. It likely wasn't long,
>: but it definitely could have been long enough for the ASTONISHING arc
>: to take place.
>
> That's because Astonishing happened BEFORE X-men #204, not after. It's
> the first appearance of Scott's team in the book for months, definitely
> a prelude to MC. It doesn't make sense to jam Astonishing (which began
> what, almost 4 years ago now?) in between #204 and #205.

Wasn't it said around a year ago or so that Whedon's Astonishing
run would "happen" whenever it actually finished, because so many
big events had already happened during its glacial pacing?
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

: > Has Armor (or whatever her name is, the kid with the force-field
: > armor) shown up in any of the other recent X-Books?

: She was in X-Men 207 most recently.

And anyway, Cassandra has possessed her. That's a story kernel they're
going to use one day.

Shawn H.
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

Shawn H wrote:
> The Black Guardian wrote:
>> No, she wasn't. No one knew anything about any baby when they were
>> discussing the diaries. They just needed the diaries to keep the
>> Marauders/Acolytes from getting them. We don't know how much time
>> elapsed between X-MEN #204 (Kitty's last appearance outside of
>> ASTONISHING) and the start of Messiah Complex. It likely wasn't
>> long, but it definitely could have been long enough for the
>> ASTONISHING arc to take place.
>
> That's because Astonishing happened BEFORE X-men #204, not after.
> It's the first appearance of Scott's team in the book for months,
> definitely a prelude to MC. It doesn't make sense to jam
> Astonishing (which began what, almost 4 years ago now?) in between
> #204 and #205.

I agree that it doesn't make sense, which is why I wish they would
just write it off as an alternate universe. When a book is delayed
this much, its story really becomes next to useless.

However, one of the Astonishing X-Men is supposed to die. Originally,
we just had Blindfold saying one wouldn't return, but now the solicit
for the Giant-Size says one "won't walk away."

All of the Astonishing team have appeared in X-MEN #204 or afterwards.
Unless, of course, they're lying to us or are going to kill Lockheed,
both of which are possible, but then, the question remains:

Why is Kitty absent from Messiah Complex? Frankly, I don't even think
mourning Lockheed is sufficient explanation for her absence.

>> The big problem is that ASTONISHING can't very well take place
>> after Messiah, since the mansion is unlivable and the kids will
>> be leaving.
>
> I think it's more likely that it took place back around Uncanny
> #475.

That's way too far back. Even Lockheed has appeared since then, but
maybe they are lying to us. Wouldn't be the first time; won't be the
last.

>>> They were all just back from Astonishing (which apparently lasted
>>> no longer than a week, all told).
>>
>> There was no reference to just getting back from ASTONISHING.
>
> Yet Peter was there, and he was discovered during Astonishing. In
> fact it was the exact Astonishing lineup.

Piotr has been all over the place in the books since UNCANNY X-MEN
#460 (this issue officially places Piotr's resurrection, the first two
arcs of AXM, and the Wolverine "Enemy of of the State" arc, shortly
after the X-Men returned from the Savage Land with those dinosaurs).
In UXM #460, Kitty is enjoying Piotr's return, Rachel is pissy because
someone other than her mom was resurrected, references are made to
Wolverine being held by SHIELD, and the mansion being without a super-
hi-tech Danger Room.

And of course, the Astonishing team is the rest of Marveldom's only X-
Men team. Just about any appearance of the X-Men since House of M in
regular Marvel books has been the Astonishing team.

There is a huge gap of time between ASTONISHING X-MEN #12 and #13 that
includes the build-up to HOUSE OF M and Decimation. While there is
nothing directly that places it after the Decimation, it would have to
be in order to make anyone give a $#!+ about ASTONISHING.
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

Billy Bissette wrote:
> Shawn H wrote:
>> The Black Guardian wrote:
>>> No, she wasn't. No one knew anything about any baby when they
>>> were discussing the diaries. They just needed the diaries to
>>> keep the Marauders/Acolytes from getting them. We don't know how
>>> much time elapsed between X-MEN #204 (Kitty's last appearance
>>> outside of ASTONISHING) and the start of Messiah Complex. It
>>> likely wasn't long, but it definitely could have been long
>>> enough for the ASTONISHING arc to take place.
>>
>> That's because Astonishing happened BEFORE X-men #204, not after.
>> It's the first appearance of Scott's team in the book for months,
>> definitely a prelude to MC. It doesn't make sense to jam
>> Astonishing (which began what, almost 4 years ago now?) in
>> between #204 and #205.

Also, this wasn't the first appearance of Scott's team in the book for
months. Scott's team appeared all throughout the "Blinded by the
Light" arc (X-MEN #200-203), fighting the Marauders/Acolytes in both
Rogue's home and the X-Mansion.

> Wasn't it said around a year ago or so that Whedon's Astonishing
> run would "happen" whenever it actually finished, because so many
> big events had already happened during its glacial pacing?

That was said at one point. However, now this is going to be in April
(the Giant-Size ending is now due April 9th), and now, there is no
mansion, there is no school, and there is no X-Men team.

Hmm... April also starts the Skrull thing. I wonder if that's a
coincidence?
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

"Painter" <aw.pSaTiOnPter.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bntup3l7qj6hlf8145i57bh2hjp43jjcvk@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:51:29 +0000 (UTC), Shawn H
> <shill.DeleteThis@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
>
> >I think it's more likely that it took place back around Uncanny #475.
> >
>
> Are you saying the entire Astonishing run takes place around then, or
> just the Breakworld part of it?
>
> I can't remember what happened in Uncanny #475. If the entire
> Astonishing run happened then, how does that jive with the Genoshan
> Excalibur series, because that happened around the Danger storyline.
>

The first two arcs of Astonishing (#1-12) probably happened around about
ahen they were released. Issues 13-24 are pretty much inseperable, so it's
those that probably take place just before Messiah Complex.

- Nathan P. Mahney -
http://www.thecomicnerd.com

- Nathan P. Mahney -
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

The Black Guardian <blakgard.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in news:1fc42ed8-4ea2-420a-
b0b2-0a4cb12fbaf6.TakeThisOut@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> Billy Bissette wrote:

>> Wasn't it said around a year ago or so that Whedon's Astonishing
>> run would "happen" whenever it actually finished, because so many
>> big events had already happened during its glacial pacing?
>
> That was said at one point. However, now this is going to be in April
> (the Giant-Size ending is now due April 9th), and now, there is no
> mansion, there is no school, and there is no X-Men team.

I find it surprisingly funny that Whedon has taken so long that
the X-Men themselves managed to disband before he finished.

About the only other thing that could happen at this point is for
the Marvel Universe to either explode or reboot before April. Though
it would also be funny if Giant-Size Astonishing X-Men #1 either gets
delayed or turns out to not actually be enough to finish Whedon's run.
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

Billy Bissette wrote:
> I find it surprisingly funny that Whedon has taken so long that
> the X-Men themselves managed to disband before he finished.
>
> About the only other thing that could happen at this point is for
> the Marvel Universe to either explode or reboot before April.
> Though it would also be funny if Giant-Size Astonishing X-Men #1
> either gets delayed or turns out to not actually be enough to
> finish Whedon's run.

It is funny, but Whedon isn't the only one to blame. He's been
completely done on his side for well over a year. Editorial is mostly
to blame, for drafting Cassaday for other projects. What's funny is
that Marvel would tolerate this kind of BS.
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

"The Black Guardian" <blakgard DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:0cef9e72-0c18-4fe8-a01e-9705eede1dd4@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Billy Bissette wrote:
> > I find it surprisingly funny that Whedon has taken so long that
> > the X-Men themselves managed to disband before he finished.
> >
> > About the only other thing that could happen at this point is for
> > the Marvel Universe to either explode or reboot before April.
> > Though it would also be funny if Giant-Size Astonishing X-Men #1
> > either gets delayed or turns out to not actually be enough to
> > finish Whedon's run.
>
> It is funny, but Whedon isn't the only one to blame. He's been
> completely done on his side for well over a year. Editorial is mostly
> to blame, for drafting Cassaday for other projects. What's funny is
> that Marvel would tolerate this kind of BS.

What else has Cassaday done? He was working on Planetary for a while, but I
don't know of any other Marvel projects that he's been working on apart from
X-Men.

- Nathan P. Mahney -
http://www.thecomicnerd.com
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 00:46:43 +1100, "Nathan P. Mahney"
<npmahney.DeleteThis@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>
>"The Black Guardian" <blakgard.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:0cef9e72-0c18-4fe8-a01e-9705eede1dd4@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> Billy Bissette wrote:
>> > I find it surprisingly funny that Whedon has taken so long that
>> > the X-Men themselves managed to disband before he finished.
>> >
>> > About the only other thing that could happen at this point is for
>> > the Marvel Universe to either explode or reboot before April.
>> > Though it would also be funny if Giant-Size Astonishing X-Men #1
>> > either gets delayed or turns out to not actually be enough to
>> > finish Whedon's run.
>>
>> It is funny, but Whedon isn't the only one to blame. He's been
>> completely done on his side for well over a year. Editorial is mostly
>> to blame, for drafting Cassaday for other projects. What's funny is
>> that Marvel would tolerate this kind of BS.
>
>What else has Cassaday done? He was working on Planetary for a while, but I
>don't know of any other Marvel projects that he's been working on apart from
>X-Men.
>
>- Nathan P. Mahney -
>http://www.thecomicnerd.com
>

He's STILL supposedly working on Planetary (there's supposed to be one
more issue)...as for Marvel, the only recent work he's done other than
Astonishing was one of the Fallen Son one-shots...and then, of course,
he's cover artist and art director for Lone Ranger (whatever the hell
that means)...he's clearly overextended but Marvel's only to blame for
putting up with the ridiculous delays on Astonishing...the rest is all
Cassaday...he's slow as hell on a good day and he has no business
working on multiple projects at the same time when he can't even get
one out on time.
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast? 

The Black Guardian <blakgard.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:

: There is a huge gap of time between ASTONISHING X-MEN #12 and #13 that
: includes the build-up to HOUSE OF M and Decimation. While there is
: nothing directly that places it after the Decimation, it would have to
: be in order to make anyone give a $#!+ about ASTONISHING.

I suppose there's just no good way to make sense of the Astonishing in
reference to the other books, as I'm sure no one ever planned for them
to be tied up in space for this long. But the attempt now is to get
them all back together, and I really think that promised "death" is
going to be quite minor.

"Walk away?" Could even be someone new in a wheelchair, couldn't it?

Shawn H.
 >> Stay informed about: Is Kitty Toast?