Snide parodies

"Tim Neumann" <timothybil.RemoveThis@iowatelecom.net> wrote in message
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>
> "deowll" <deowll.RemoveThis@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:p5ELi.60450$7e6.57478@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "mike weber" <fairportfan.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:r3fqf398pbsh69rdq1tkbcd2nkl4krv52d@4ax.com...
>> > On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:33:09 -0400, "Fred Burton"
>> > <fburton.RemoveThis@biteme2.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>"TheWanderer" <usenet.RemoveThis@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:Xns99B6D3F534BEerictzoneabpeg@216.151.153.48...
>> >
>> >
>> >>> I always wondered -- did DW start with the "Age of Sail" concept
>> >>> and then invented the Warshawski sail, or did he start with the
>> >>> sail and extrapolated the culture?
>> >>
>> >>The former...
>> >>
>> >>He was trying to come up with a Horatio Hornblower in space
>> >>concept, at Jim Baen's urging.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I offered him an expansion on the concept - that, as WIlliam Ellern
>> > pointed out in "Moon Prospector", lasers (or any other energy weapon
>> > of less than 100% energy conversion efficiency) really aren't actually
>> > all tat practical for spaceships, 'cos the heat generated has to go
>> > *somewhere*[1]. A spaceship can't radiate heat nearly as fast as it
>> > would build up in an action with significant use of the beam weapons.
>> >
>> > So i suggested that each laser/graser mount be provided with blocks of
>> > metallic sodium, which would be loaded against the "breech" of the
>> > weapon before each shot, and would carry off the heat by vapourising
>> > and being exhausted to space.
>> >
>> > Forming a cloud of "gunsmoke" that neither sensors nor lasers could
>> > penetrate till the ship moved on and left it behind...
>> >
>> > (This would also create a "magazine capacity" limit, like unto the
>> > windjammers of the Napoleonic Age, too.
>> >
>> > [1] Consider a weapon which converts 99.99% of the input to downrange
>> > energy. If you put a gigajoule in, you will get 100K joule out the
>> > back - as energy.
>> >
>> > And i refuse to believe in a beam weapon that's even *nearly as
>> > efficient as *that*.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Darn, you do have a point. We also can't afford to look at the source of
> the
>> energy going into that system and how it is converted into electricity in
>> the first place or the size of the ships could be explained as heat
>> sinks.
>> Um, I don't think you want a human crew anywhere near these
> lasers/grazers.
>>
>> I still think that these ships are going to glow so hot on infrared that
> any
>> thought of stealth is bogus unless they are coasting with power off and
> have
>> been for some time. A long range lock on using several missiles with a
>> decent spread sharing data would work like a charm and fritzing it is not
>> going to work
>>
> I kinda think that a technology level that supports superconducting
> capacitor rings that can store mega/giga-watts of energy should be able to
> use superconductors to sink the heat rapidly with any problem.
>
> (If you don't buy that idea, then make sure you strengthen your 'willing
> suspension of disbelief' and sit back and enjoy the show.)
>
>

A super conductor conducts. "Willing suspension of disbelief".
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"mike weber" <fairportfan.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
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> On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:55:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <phamp.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Refrigerators, great big honking freezers. That is what is taking
>>up all the space in the ships, the mother loving huge refrigerators.
>> And all those swimming pools? As part of the preparation for
>>battle, those get frozen, to serve as heat sinks.
>
> Still not enough heat sink.
>
> And what do the freezers do with the heat they extrract from what
> they're freezing?
>
> It's a closed system.

In the void it is nearly zero absolute once you get a fair distance from the
sun. Given time the heat would radiate and you could cool much of the ship
that cold before battle however this space would not be a good place for
humans to be in even in a space suit. What you don't get is conduction to
the void or convetion currents. This slows down heat loss to radiant energy
which could still be fairly fast in the outer system or on the shaddy side
away from the sun.


> --
> mike weber (fairportfan@gmail.com)
> ============================
> My Website: http://electronictiger.com
> ===================================
> No use looking for the answers when the questions are in doubt - Fred
> leBlanc, "The Love of My Life"
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"pyotr filipivich" <phamp.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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> After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned
> mike weber <fairportfan.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote on Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:04:39
> -0400 in alt.books.david-weber :
>>On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:55:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><phamp.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Refrigerators, great big honking freezers. That is what is taking
>>>up all the space in the ships, the mother loving huge refrigerators.
>>> And all those swimming pools? As part of the preparation for
>>>battle, those get frozen, to serve as heat sinks.
>>
>>Still not enough heat sink.
>>
>>And what do the freezers do with the heat they extrract from what
>>they're freezing?
>>
>>It's a closed system.
>
> Like I said "it's turtle all the way down." Which is why the SD(P)
> are so big. You just think those are pods, but half of them are heat
> sinks taking the excess heat with them.
>
> Really, just keep adding refrigerators until you've solved the
> problem (by making a thermally conductive contact with a planetary body,
> or a ship to massive to lift.
>
> tschus
> pyotr
>
It would explain why most fortress are so big and not all that effective for
their size. Heat sink mass in the middle.

> --
> pyotr filipivich
> We now return you to something called reality.
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"mike weber" <fairportfan.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
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> On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:58:23 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <phamp.RemoveThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned
>>mike weber <fairportfan.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote on Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:43:22
>>-0400 in alt.books.david-weber :
>
>>>Space is not cold. Space is no temperature at all.
>>>
>>>And refrigerators and air cponditioners (which a heat pumps is) only
>>>work if there's somewhere toi actually *put* the heat.
>>
>> We're heating up the quantum foam.
>
> Sorry. It's already fully energised.

I know. All you have to do is dump it into the wedge! Wave magic wand and
make it go away.


>
> --
> mike weber (fairportfan@gmail.com)
> ============================
> My Website: http://electronictiger.com
> ===================================
> No use looking for the answers when the questions are in doubt - Fred
> leBlanc, "The Love of My Life"
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"Offbreed" <offbreed_106.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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> mike weber wrote:
>> There's no place to sink it *to*, except the ship's own structure, and
>> that's gonna have a limited capacity (at least relative to the amount
>> of energy released).
>>
>> I just ignore this sort of thing, though - and not just in Dave's
>> books, either.
>>
> Don't the wedge and sidewalls block light, and therefore IR? The ship
> should glow like crazy from the front or back, but the buckler could help
> there (now).
>
> I still suspect a second, smaller, sidewall could be set up inside the
> regular sidewall. Maybe even a third, even smaller, inside the second

I think we were told that military ships have more than one sidewall which
is why killing a sidewall is not all that effective. No data on size but
that was part of one story about a weapon to kill sidewalls.
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pyotr filipivich <phamp RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in
news:5puch3huqbsr40iq8tjrasdom0f23m23uf@4ax.com:

> After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned
> Sean Kennedy <therealorang RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote on Wed, 17 Oct 2007
> 07:36:27 -0500 in alt.books.david-weber :
>>mike weber <fairportfan RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:3bq0h35u8qsdurihust7lnvm691nknclkh@4ax.com:
>>
>>> And that wasn't Asimov - that's Bester's "Fondly Fahrenheit". And it
>>> was an android (meaning an artificial living being) not a robot.
>>>
>>
>>"The Warm Place" by an author I can't remember is what Pyotr is
thinking
>
> Thank you. I "burned" through a lot of SF when I was younger.
> Details like authors, titles, publications didn't so much fall by the
> way, as never got picked up in the first place ...
> I remember the plots/stories, but rarely the who or where.
>
>
> tschus
> pyotr
>

Now that I think on it it might have been "The Warm Space" rather than
place. That actually gets some hits for being in SF anthologies.
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