Troels Forchhammer wrote:
> In message <news:MPG.22b426db943c13b398b687@news.individual.net>
> Stan Brown <the_stan_brown.RemoveThis@fastmail.fm> spoke these staves:
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> > Wasn't Odin the bringer of storms? Or am I thinking of something
> > else?
>
> I don't remember Odin as a storm god -- my impression is rather that
> this was Thor's job
Yup.
AFAIK Odin doesn't seem to have any direct equivalent in any of the
non-Germanic Indo-European pantheons - he was likely either a later
addition or a pre-existing god in the areas later inhabited by proto-
Germanic peoples or among the people who adopted proto-Germanic
language (just how Europeans came to be speakers of IE languages is of
course still the topic of much speculation and debate).
IIRC the Romans equated Odin/Wodan to Mercury, but they tended to do
that sort of thing whether the comparison was warranted or not -
Tacitus also equated Baldur to Apollo, Tyr to Mars, and Thor to
Jupiter, none of which is a correct match.
> (Thor, IIRC, is, in etymological terms, the same as Zeus).
Nope, that would be Tyr (Dyeus-Tiwaz-Tiw-Tyr). Somewhere over the
years he was eclipsed by Odin (Woden, etc.) and lost the thunderbolt
as well. Thor (Thunaz-Donar) may or may not be a cognate of and
counterpart to Indra, who was also in part a storm-god. Perun/Perkunas
is the same god as well, but the name is unrelated. Dyeus (etc.),
despite the thunderbolt, was the sky-father generally, not
specifically a storm god.
With respect to the larger question raised in this thread, I think
it's impossible to equate Valar to historical mythological
counterparts - the conceptions are entirely opposite. There's plainly
some sharing of superficial aspects, and I can accept that Tolkien
might have meant to suggest that the historical pantheons were based
in part on dim and fragmentary recollections of tales about the "real"
Valar, but that's as far as it goes. The roles and personalities are
too different and too incompatible, and the association of different
traits in individuals is very different as well (as someone pointed
out eariler with the Ulmo-music connection).
The major thematic differences I see that make such comparisons
impossible are two: first, the Valar are stewards or viceroys, not
sovereigns and creators. They shape Arda and greatly influence the
Children of Illuvatar, but they created neither, and everything they
do is an attempt to serve the will of the higher power that did.
That's at odds with the conception of the human pantheons, whose gods
are generally free agents and the creators of mankind. They may be
subject to a higher power, but do not serve it, and in many instances
they overthrew and killed their predecessors who took an earlier role
in creation.
Second, and IMO more important, almost all of the historical pagan
gods were not just human-like, but more human than human - they
displayed and often gave free rein to both our virtues and our
shortcomings. They Greek gods in particular were frequently vain,
petty, jealous, lustful, greedy, impulsive, dishonest, murderous,
spiteful, stubborn, and above all, proud. The Valar, apart from
Melkor, were none of these things - not only were they above such
vices, their only real failing was an inability to understand them in
others (particularly in Melkor). One simply cannot imagine Manwe
taking the part of Zeus in any myth in which the latter interacted
with humans - nor can one imagine the Olympians or Aesir displaying
the confusion, indecision, and subordination to the will of Eru that
so often characterized the Valar's interactions with Melkor and/or the
Eruhini. The Valar would not have accepted worship; the gods demanded
it. And the Satanic Melkor is the only Vala who could conceivably have
countenanced, let alone demanded, the human sacrifices offered to Odin
and other (though not the Greek or Roman) pagan gods.
- Bruce
>> Stay informed about: Which gods inspired the Valar 
FAQ
Profile
Private Messages
Log in
