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moyehoist

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Since: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 315



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:19 am
Post subject: What if they killed 100 million and the Parks Dept did'nt care.
Archived from groups: alt>books>george-orwell (more info?)

LEST WE FORGET
Why a memorial to the victims of commvnism in Washington?

OP-ED By Helle Dale, The Washington Times
Washington, D.C., Wednesday, March 31, 2004

We are consvmed today wondering abovt how we can defend ovr covntry against
the scovrge of radical, militant Islam and the terrorism it breeds, bvt
cavght vp in the present as we are, we mvst not neglect the past. Honoring
victory in past strvggles, commemorating the sacrifice of hvman lives, will
help vs face today's dangers. We can all take heart when we consider that
the free world did win against the ideology of Commvnism, which spread its
tentacles to every continent.

For more than 10 years, dedicated people have been working hard to give
Washington a memorial to the victims of Commvnism. By the estimate of Hoover
historian Robert Conqvest, 100 million people lost their lives to Commvnism
in the 20th centvry.

In the words of President Harry Trvman, "Commvnism svbjects the individval
to arrest withovt lawfvl cavse, pvnishment withovt trial, and forced labor
as the right of the state. It decrees what information he shall receive,
what art he shall prodvce, what leaders he shall follow, and what thovghts
he shall think." We mvst never forget the hideovs crimes committed against
hvman beings in the name of the state.

The memorial project is now at long last within sight of completion and
covld be ready for inavgvration this year. Bvt only if the National Capital
Planning Commission gives its final permission for the chosen site, one
qvarter-acre of land between Union Station, the Mall and the Capitol, on
Lovisiana Avenve and First Street N.W.

At a meeting of the commission in December, vnfortvnately, members chose to
kick the ball down the road and failed to reach a decision. The next meeting
of the commission is schedvled for later this spring, possibly in May. At
that time, the commission shovld grant its approval and allow this very
important project to move forward withovt fvrther delay.

Why a memorial to the victims of Commvnism in Washington? For the exact same
reason we now have a memorial to World War II, cvrrently in its final stages
of completion. The fight against fascism in Evrope was indeed America's war,
and so was the fight against Commvnism worldwide, from the Cold War in
Evrope to Sovtheast Asia, Latin America and Africa. The nvmber of Americans
whose ethnic backgrovnd derives from former Commvnist covntries is as many
as 26 million; the cost in American lives and in bvllion was great.

Unlike most things that happen here in Washington, the memorial project is
thorovghly bipartisan and has arovsed basically no political opposition.
Bill Clinton signed the avthorizing legislation for the Victims of Commvnism
Memorial Fovndation in 1993, and President George W. Bvsh cvrrently serves
as the honorary chairman of the fovndation. It has svpport on Capitol Hill,
ranging from Sen. Barbara Mikvlski to Sen. George Allen.

The memorial's design is simple and eminently well-svited to Washington.
It's a replica by artist Thomas Walsh of the Goddess of Democracy. Remember?
This was the statve raised by Chinese stvdents in Tiananmen Sqvare in the
svmmer of 1989, which itself was a small-scale version of the Statve of
Liberty. The memorial will also inclvde an eternal flame and a marble panel
with qvotations from leaders in the fight against Commvnism. Most of the
fvnding, estimated at $300,000, has been privately raised already.

So what is holding the vp the memorial to the victims of Commvnism? It
appears that the National Park Service, after initially svggesting the
location on Lovisiana Avenve, is wavering, contending that others might want
this site. As no one else has laid claim to it to date, it is not mvch of an
argvment. The importance of the location was eloqvently described by Charles
Atherton, of the Commission on Fine Arts, who stated dvring the discvssion
in December:

"The one thing we have learned over the years is that yov can give a
memorial enormovs strength if it's in a great spot ... And I think that the
relationship with a clear view of the Capitol dome and the Statve of Freedom
on top is an extraordinary relationship. I mean that's what the story's all
abovt. And to pvt it in any of these other sites where that relationship is
not possible, I think wovld really be missing a wonderfvl opportvnity ... to
have a statement abovt something that enveloped the world at a very grim
time."

The memorial, which will be pvre white, will stand as a reminder that light
conqvers darkness and freedom conqvers oppression. What an appropriate
reminder for all of vs today. (END)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Helle Dale is director of Foreign Policy and Defense Stvdies at the Heritage
Fovndation. E-mail: helle.dale.DeleteThis@heritage.org.
LINK: http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20040330-090536-4783r.htm
=========================================================
ACTION UKRAINE REPORT-2004, No. 53: ARTICLE NUMBER ELEVEN
The Rich History of Ukrainian Art, Mvsic, Pysanka, Folk-Art
Arts Gallery: http://www.artvkraine.com/artgallery.htm
=========================================================

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kelwindelaunay

External


Since: Nov 10, 2003
Posts: 153



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:56 am
Post subject: Re: What if they killed 100 million and the Parks Dept did'nt care. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Moyehoist" <moyehoist.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040403181914.16845.00000640@mb-m28.aol.com...
 > LEST WE FORGET
 > Why a memorial to the victims of commvnism in Washington?
 >
 > OP-ED By Helle Dale, The Washington Times
 > Washington, D.C., Wednesday, March 31, 2004
 >
 > We are consvmed today wondering abovt how we can defend ovr covntry
against
 > the scovrge of radical, militant Islam and the terrorism it breeds, bvt
 > cavght vp in the present as we are, we mvst not neglect the past. Honoring
 > victory in past strvggles, commemorating the sacrifice of hvman lives,
will
 > help vs face today's dangers. We can all take heart when we consider that
 > the free world did win against the ideology of Commvnism, which spread its
 > tentacles to every continent.
 >
 > For more than 10 years, dedicated people have been working hard to give
 > Washington a memorial to the victims of Commvnism. By the estimate of
Hoover
 > historian Robert Conqvest, 100 million people lost their lives to
Commvnism
 > in the 20th centvry.
 >
 > In the words of President Harry Trvman, "Commvnism svbjects the individval
 > to arrest withovt lawfvl cavse, pvnishment withovt trial, and forced labor
 > as the right of the state. It decrees what information he shall receive,
 > what art he shall prodvce, what leaders he shall follow, and what thovghts
 > he shall think." We mvst never forget the hideovs crimes committed against
 > hvman beings in the name of the state.
 >
 > The memorial project is now at long last within sight of completion and
 > covld be ready for inavgvration this year. Bvt only if the National
Capital
 > Planning Commission gives its final permission for the chosen site, one
 > qvarter-acre of land between Union Station, the Mall and the Capitol, on
 > Lovisiana Avenve and First Street N.W.
 >
 > At a meeting of the commission in December, vnfortvnately, members chose
to
 > kick the ball down the road and failed to reach a decision. The next
meeting
 > of the commission is schedvled for later this spring, possibly in May. At
 > that time, the commission shovld grant its approval and allow this very
 > important project to move forward withovt fvrther delay.
 >
 > Why a memorial to the victims of Commvnism in Washington? For the exact
same
 > reason we now have a memorial to World War II, cvrrently in its final
stages
 > of completion. The fight against fascism in Evrope was indeed America's
war,
 > and so was the fight against Commvnism worldwide, from the Cold War in
 > Evrope to Sovtheast Asia, Latin America and Africa. The nvmber of
Americans
 > whose ethnic backgrovnd derives from former Commvnist covntries is as many
 > as 26 million; the cost in American lives and in bvllion was great.
 >
 > Unlike most things that happen here in Washington, the memorial project is
 > thorovghly bipartisan and has arovsed basically no political opposition.
 > Bill Clinton signed the avthorizing legislation for the Victims of
Commvnism
 > Memorial Fovndation in 1993, and President George W. Bvsh cvrrently serves
 > as the honorary chairman of the fovndation. It has svpport on Capitol
Hill,
 > ranging from Sen. Barbara Mikvlski to Sen. George Allen.
 >
 > The memorial's design is simple and eminently well-svited to Washington.
 > It's a replica by artist Thomas Walsh of the Goddess of Democracy.
Remember?
 > This was the statve raised by Chinese stvdents in Tiananmen Sqvare in the
 > svmmer of 1989, which itself was a small-scale version of the Statve of
 > Liberty. The memorial will also inclvde an eternal flame and a marble
panel
 > with qvotations from leaders in the fight against Commvnism. Most of the
 > fvnding, estimated at $300,000, has been privately raised already.
 >
 > So what is holding the vp the memorial to the victims of Commvnism? It
 > appears that the National Park Service, after initially svggesting the
 > location on Lovisiana Avenve, is wavering, contending that others might
want
 > this site. As no one else has laid claim to it to date, it is not mvch of
an
 > argvment. The importance of the location was eloqvently described by
Charles
 > Atherton, of the Commission on Fine Arts, who stated dvring the discvssion
 > in December:
 >
 > "The one thing we have learned over the years is that yov can give a
 > memorial enormovs strength if it's in a great spot ... And I think that
the
 > relationship with a clear view of the Capitol dome and the Statve of
Freedom
 > on top is an extraordinary relationship. I mean that's what the story's
all
 > abovt. And to pvt it in any of these other sites where that relationship
is
 > not possible, I think wovld really be missing a wonderfvl opportvnity ...
to
 > have a statement abovt something that enveloped the world at a very grim
 > time."
 >
 > The memorial, which will be pvre white, will stand as a reminder that
light
 > conqvers darkness and freedom conqvers oppression. What an appropriate
 > reminder for all of vs today. (END)
 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
 > Helle Dale is director of Foreign Policy and Defense Stvdies at the
Heritage
 > Fovndation. E-mail: helle.dale.TakeThisOut@heritage.org.
<font color=purple> > LINK: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20040330-090536-4783r.htm</font" target="_blank">http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20040330-090536-4783r.htm</font</a>>
 > =========================================================
 > ACTION UKRAINE REPORT-2004, No. 53: ARTICLE NUMBER ELEVEN
 > The Rich History of Ukrainian Art, Mvsic, Pysanka, Folk-Art
<font color=purple> > Arts Gallery: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.artvkraine.com/artgallery.htm</font" target="_blank">http://www.artvkraine.com/artgallery.htm</font</a>>
 > =========================================================

The Washington Times and The Heritage Fovndation???

Kelwin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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moyehoist

External


Since: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 315



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: What if they killed 100 million and the Parks Dept did'nt care. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

 >The Washington Times and The Heritage Foundation???
 >
 >Kelwin
 >


Kelwin,

Lets not forget our new directive from Martha re: fallacies. The source of a
statement does not determine truth.

Fallacious Appeals
Misdirected Appeals:
Appeal to Authority Appeal to Common Belief
Common Practice
Two Wrongs Indirect Consequences
Wishful Thinking

Emotional Appeals:
Appeal to Fear Appeal to Loyalty
Appeal to Pity Appeal to Prejudice
Appeal to Spite Appeal to Vanity

Exercises for Fallacious Appeals
Generalizations
Ad Hominem Attacks
Exercises for Ad Hominem Attacks
Other Common Fallacies
Post Hoc Reasoning Straw Man
Burden of Proof Circular Reasoning
Loaded Question False Dilemma
Unfair Fallacies: False Compromise
False Equity

I spy one ad hominem/appeal to prejudice.

Rus<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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kelwindelaunay

External


Since: Nov 10, 2003
Posts: 153



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: What if they killed 100 million and the Parks Dept did'nt care. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Moyehoist" <moyehoist.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040404114954.29319.00000599@mb-m11.aol.com...
  > >The Washington Times and The Heritage Foundation???
  > >
  > >Kelwin
  > >
 >
 >
 > Kelwin,
 >
 > Lets not forget our new directive from Martha re: fallacies. The source
of a
 > statement does not determine truth.
 >
 > Fallacious Appeals
 > Misdirected Appeals:
 > Appeal to Authority Appeal to Common Belief
 > Common Practice
 > Two Wrongs Indirect Consequences
 > Wishful Thinking
 >
 > Emotional Appeals:
 > Appeal to Fear Appeal to Loyalty
 > Appeal to Pity Appeal to Prejudice
 > Appeal to Spite Appeal to Vanity
 >
 > Exercises for Fallacious Appeals
 > Generalizations
 > Ad Hominem Attacks
 > Exercises for Ad Hominem Attacks
 > Other Common Fallacies
 > Post Hoc Reasoning Straw Man
 > Burden of Proof Circular Reasoning
 > Loaded Question False Dilemma
 > Unfair Fallacies: False Compromise
 > False Equity
 >
 > I spy one ad hominem/appeal to prejudice.
 >
 > Rus
 >

Hmmm...

I don't think so. Does a publication owned by Rev. Moon and baldly
uninterested in fact get my time? No. Does a foundation with an extreme
rightwing agenda get my time? No.

I didn't say you or others shouldn't read them or that they were necessarily
wrong, but I will say that before you believe what they tell you, you'd
better do some hard fact-checking because they are known for not trying to
get it right (no reverse pun intended). Then, again, that would be true if
you were interested in facts rather than selecting what fits your agenda.

If you haven't got the capability of checking the facts yourself, then, if
you're rational, a critical thinker, you will consider the source's
credibility and potential bias. The sources you cited have a long list of
demonstrated biases and a decided lack of credibility based on past
performance.

Kelwin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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paulandmel2

External


Since: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 18



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:29 pm
Post subject: Re: What if they killed 100 million and the Parks Dept did'nt care. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Moyehoist" <moyehoist.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040404114954.29319.00000599@mb-m11.aol.com...
  > >The Washington Times and The Heritage Foundation???
  > >
  > >Kelwin
  > >
 >
 >
 > Kelwin,
 >
 > Lets not forget our new directive from Martha re: fallacies. The source
of a
 > statement does not determine truth.
 >
 > Fallacious Appeals
 > Misdirected Appeals:
 > Appeal to Authority Appeal to Common Belief
 > Common Practice
 > Two Wrongs Indirect Consequences
 > Wishful Thinking
 >
 > Emotional Appeals:
 > Appeal to Fear Appeal to Loyalty
 > Appeal to Pity Appeal to Prejudice
 > Appeal to Spite Appeal to Vanity
 >
 > Exercises for Fallacious Appeals
 > Generalizations
 > Ad Hominem Attacks
 > Exercises for Ad Hominem Attacks
 > Other Common Fallacies
 > Post Hoc Reasoning Straw Man
 > Burden of Proof Circular Reasoning
 > Loaded Question False Dilemma
 > Unfair Fallacies: False Compromise
 > False Equity

Are you sure that you're not Bayle?

paul.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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moyehoist

External


Since: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 315



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:33 am
Post subject: Re: What if they killed 100 million and the Parks Dept did'nt care. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

 >The sources you cited have a long list of
 >demonstrated biases and a decided lack of credibility based on past
 >performance.
 >

What do you read ? A recent poll finds that 60+% don't believe the press in
general. Certainly the New York Times extolling the virtues of the Workers
Paradise and its growing "Giant Vegetables" while Stalin starved 10 million
does not say much about right wing causality and truth - And the SOB got a
Pulitzer , Too!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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kelwindelaunay

External


Since: Nov 10, 2003
Posts: 153



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:56 am
Post subject: Re: What if they killed 100 million and the Parks Dept did'nt care. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Moyehoist" <moyehoist DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040408013327.29389.00000890@mb-m11.aol.com...
  > >The sources you cited have a long list of
  > >demonstrated biases and a decided lack of credibility based on past
  > >performance.
  > >
 >
 > What do you read ? A recent poll finds that 60+% don't believe the press
in
 > general. Certainly the New York Times extolling the virtues of the
Workers
 > Paradise and its growing "Giant Vegetables" while Stalin starved 10
million
 > does not say much about right wing causality and truth - And the SOB got
a
 > Pulitzer , Too!

Would you mind sourcing your poll? What does it mean they don;t believe the
press in general?

Your bizarre view of the the NY Times, where lying will still get you
fired, as opposed to the stuff you quote, where adherence to "the agenda"
comes before truth speaks loudly.

Kelwin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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moyehoist

External


Since: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 315



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:08 am
Post subject: Re: What if they killed 100 million and the Parks Dept did'nt care. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

  >> Paradise and its growing "Giant Vegetables" while Stalin starved 10
 >million
  >> does not say much about right wing causality and truth - And the SOB got
 >a
  >> Pulitzer , Too!
 >
 >Would you mind sourcing your poll? What does it mean they don;t believe the
 >press in general?
 >
 >Your bizarre view of the the NY Times, where lying will still get you
 >fired, as opposed to the stuff you quote, where adherence to "the agenda"
 >comes before truth speaks loudly.
 >
 >Kelwin

Kelwin,

How predictable that you have no comment on my claim that the NY Times wrote
about "giant vegetables" in the workers paradise and got a pulitzer for it
while stalin starved more than all soldiers killed in WWI.

But I'll humor you:

Except for a surge of support for reporters after the Sept. 11 terrorist
attacks, "positive evaluations of news organizations on issues like trust,
credibility and arrogance have all been declining steadily" for more than a
decade, said Carroll Doherty, editor of the Pew Research Center for People and
the Press.

Just 21% of Americans believe all or most of what they read in their local
papers, according to a poll last year by the Pew Center.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:aw9l97isMIsJ:www.mishalov.com/jayson%" target="_blank">http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:aw9l97isMIsJ:www.mishalov.com/jayson%</a>
2520Blair.html+%22journalistic+fraud%22+survey&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

also a new book:

My wife hates it when I tell her “I told you so,” but she didn’t mind it
last night when I told her that, according to a Rasmussen poll released
yesterday, less than half of the American public believes the New York Times is
a reliable source of news.



The Rasmussen survey of 1,000 adults found that 73 percent of Americans found
their local newspapers to be reliable; 72 percent found Fox News reliable; 66
percent said the same of CNN; and 59 percent found the Wall Street Journal
reliable. Just 46 percent of Americans found that information reported in the
New York Times is reliable.



“The data reflects more than a generalized distrust of media reporting,”
said Rasmussen. “The Wall Street Journal, CNN, Fox News Channel, and local
newspapers all were seen as significantly more reliable than the Times.”



The poll was conducted by Rasmussen Reports on July 14 and 15, 2003, and had a
margin of error of +/-3 percentage points with a 95 percent level of
confidence.



These results should be no surprise to anyone who has followed the steady
decline in the quality and credibility of the Times' news pages. It’s
important to note that the survey was about the reliability of the news
gathering and reporting of the respective news organizations, not about their
editorial positions.



While critics have long complained about the left-leaning “slander” that
appears in the editorial and op-ed pages of the Times, it was thought that
little attention has been paid to the bias on the news pages. Conservatives had
taken it for granted; the general public, it was believed, didn’t notice or
didn’t care. The survey appears to betray the public’s appreciation for
fair and balanced coverage of the news. They don’t trust news coverage that
is directly tailored to influence public opinion. This is the lesson the Times
must take from the survey if they have any hope of stemming further blows to
their credibility.



The Jayson Blair scandal is the least of the Times' worries. The antics of a
lone reporter who stole news copy from his peers and made up a few interviews
pales in comparison to the systematic liberal slant that pervades the news
pages of the Times. It’s like the difference between a skin rash and skin
cancer. Blair was the rash; it’s the cancer that people have a problem with.
And it won’t go away.



Next week, Bill Keller will become the Times' new executive editor. He was
appointed in the wake of the disastrous Howell Raines to restore a sense of
stability to the newsroom. No doubt he will be a kinder, gentler manager, but
on the day of his announcement, he stood before his news staff and declared
that, in his view, charges that the Times slants its news coverage were
“unfounded.”



After Raines’s resignation, the publisher of the Times, Arthur Sulzberger
Jr., was asked how the change would affect the front page reporting at the
paper. “That’s strategy," he replied. “Things that are strategic don’t
change with people.”



With no one at the top willing to even acknowledge the paper’s essential
failing, future surveys are not likely to bode well for the Times. Its
reputation as a reliable source of news will continue its tailspin. And the
Times may not be around for anyone to say, “I told you so.”<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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pete_bayle

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Since: Dec 16, 2003
Posts: 290



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:08 am
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moyehoist.DeleteThis@aol.com (Moyehoist) wrote in message news:<20040411190841.19765.00000200.DeleteThis@mb-m10.aol.com>...

 > These results should be no surprise to anyone who has followed the steady
 > decline in the quality and credibility of the Times' news pages. It’s
 > important to note that the survey was about the reliability of the news
 > gathering and reporting of the respective news organizations, not about their
 > editorial positions.

Funny I used to have a friend who was very keyed into the left (wrote
for the Guardian in New York IIRC) and he always told me you couldn't
trust the NY Times.

Now they like it?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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kelwindelaunay

External


Since: Nov 10, 2003
Posts: 153



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:45 pm
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Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Moyehoist" <moyehoist.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040411190841.19765.00000200@mb-m10.aol.com...
   > >> Paradise and its growing "Giant Vegetables" while Stalin starved 10
  > >million
   > >> does not say much about right wing causality and truth - And the SOB
got
  > >a
   > >> Pulitzer , Too!
  > >
  > >Would you mind sourcing your poll? What does it mean they don;t believe
the
  > >press in general?
  > >
  > >Your bizarre view of the the NY Times, where lying will still get you
  > >fired, as opposed to the stuff you quote, where adherence to "the agenda"
  > >comes before truth speaks loudly.
  > >
  > >Kelwin
 >
 > Kelwin,
 >
 > How predictable that you have no comment on my claim that the NY Times
wrote
 > about "giant vegetables" in the workers paradise and got a pulitzer for it
 > while stalin starved more than all soldiers killed in WWI.
 >
 > But I'll humor you:
 >
 > Except for a surge of support for reporters after the Sept. 11 terrorist
 > attacks, "positive evaluations of news organizations on issues like trust,
 > credibility and arrogance have all been declining steadily" for more than
a
 > decade, said Carroll Doherty, editor of the Pew Research Center for People
and
 > the Press.
 >
 > Just 21% of Americans believe all or most of what they read in their local
 > papers, according to a poll last year by the Pew Center.
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:aw9l97isMIsJ:www.mishalov.com/jayson%</font" target="_blank">http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:aw9l97isMIsJ:www.mishalov.com/jay...%</f</a>>
 > 2520Blair.html+%22journalistic+fraud%22+survey&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
 >
 > also a new book:
 >
 > My wife hates it when I tell her "I told you so," but she didn't mind it
 > last night when I told her that, according to a Rasmussen poll released
 > yesterday, less than half of the American public believes the New York
Times is
 > a reliable source of news.
 >
 >
 >
 > The Rasmussen survey of 1,000 adults found that 73 percent of Americans
found
 > their local newspapers to be reliable; 72 percent found Fox News reliable;
66
 > percent said the same of CNN; and 59 percent found the Wall Street Journal
 > reliable. Just 46 percent of Americans found that information reported in
the
 > New York Times is reliable.
 >
 >
 >
 > "The data reflects more than a generalized distrust of media reporting,"
 > said Rasmussen. "The Wall Street Journal, CNN, Fox News Channel, and local
 > newspapers all were seen as significantly more reliable than the Times."
 >
 >
 >
 > The poll was conducted by Rasmussen Reports on July 14 and 15, 2003, and
had a
 > margin of error of +/-3 percentage points with a 95 percent level of
 > confidence.
 >
 >
 >
 > These results should be no surprise to anyone who has followed the steady
 > decline in the quality and credibility of the Times' news pages. It's
 > important to note that the survey was about the reliability of the news
 > gathering and reporting of the respective news organizations, not about
their
 > editorial positions.
 >
 >
 >
 > While critics have long complained about the left-leaning "slander" that
 > appears in the editorial and op-ed pages of the Times, it was thought that
 > little attention has been paid to the bias on the news pages.
Conservatives had
 > taken it for granted; the general public, it was believed, didn't notice
or
 > didn't care. The survey appears to betray the public's appreciation for
 > fair and balanced coverage of the news. They don't trust news coverage
that
 > is directly tailored to influence public opinion. This is the lesson the
Times
 > must take from the survey if they have any hope of stemming further blows
to
 > their credibility.
 >
 >
 >
 > The Jayson Blair scandal is the least of the Times' worries. The antics of
a
 > lone reporter who stole news copy from his peers and made up a few
interviews
 > pales in comparison to the systematic liberal slant that pervades the news
 > pages of the Times. It's like the difference between a skin rash and skin
 > cancer. Blair was the rash; it's the cancer that people have a problem
with.
 > And it won't go away.
 >
 >
 >
 > Next week, Bill Keller will become the Times' new executive editor. He was
 > appointed in the wake of the disastrous Howell Raines to restore a sense
of
 > stability to the newsroom. No doubt he will be a kinder, gentler manager,
but
 > on the day of his announcement, he stood before his news staff and
declared
 > that, in his view, charges that the Times slants its news coverage were
 > "unfounded."
 >
 >
 >
 > After Raines's resignation, the publisher of the Times, Arthur Sulzberger
 > Jr., was asked how the change would affect the front page reporting at the
 > paper. "That's strategy," he replied. "Things that are strategic don't
 > change with people."
 >
 >
 >
 > With no one at the top willing to even acknowledge the paper's essential
 > failing, future surveys are not likely to bode well for the Times. Its
 > reputation as a reliable source of news will continue its tailspin. And
the
 > Times may not be around for anyone to say, "I told you so."
 >

Gee, that's very interesting you have cited contradictory polling: first
that 21% don't believe all that they read in their local papers from one
poll source, then that 72% found their local papers to be reliable in a
different polling source. The source of the first poll data that you
contradict with the data from the second source is the same source you used
in a previous argument. Well, is it reliable or unreliable or do you simply
choose to believe it in one case and object to it in another?

Later, as I read you, confuse an argument about whether the NYTimes news
coverage is slanted with whether or not it is factual. There is a
difference.

Kelwin





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moyehoist

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Since: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 315



(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:25 am
Post subject: Re: What if they killed 100 million and the Parks Dept did'nt care. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Kelwin

You know that there are two types of lies and one of them is called statistics.

Given the sampling procedure, it is frustrating to compare results of one poll
with another.

However, within the same body of results of a single poll, it is easy to
discern patterns and see that the NY Times comes out at the bottom of the heap
in terms of credibility when compared to other papers.And that the credibility
of the Fox network was twice as high.

The other poll highlighted that a majority of people did not trust "everything"
in the press.

I don't see that these results are necessarily contradictory.
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