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Since: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 384
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(Msg. 46) Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: rec>arts>comics>marvel>xbooks (more info?)
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JLB <barnett.DeleteThis@shentel.net> wrote in
news:1181082751.152610.175360@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>> They're going to have to negate it somehow -- at least part of
>> it. There wasn't really any explanation for the change in Wanda's
>> powers. At first I thought they had some larger story in mind
>> that would explain how and why her powers changed, as well as
>> explain the increase in the number of mutants that occurred
>> during Morrison's time. But apparently they didn't have anything
>> in mind after all. They were just trying to "shock" us and turn
>> over the internet or something.
>
> Nah, they just didn't realize that with no more mutants ever the
> X-men no longer have a legitimate reason to do anything.
It seems as though they're beginning to realize the dead end they've
set up. Or Carey is, at least. >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Mar 08, 2004 Posts: 404
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(Msg. 47) Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:01 am
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dan McEwen <ferroboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns9946D923FC485ferroboygmailcom@130.133.1.4:
> Billy Bissette <baines.DeleteThis@coastalnet.com> wrote in
> news:Xns9946BB87FF6ABwhatcholookinat@207.217.125.201:
>
>> mimf <mimf.DeleteThis@nospam.com> wrote in
>> news:pan.2007.06.05.19.05.30.246553@nospam.com:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 07:13:57 +0000, Billy Bissette wrote:
>
>>> Wanda did a sloppy job for creating House of M world too. But
>>> Sinister probably wouldn't even need actual blood samples if he'd
>>> already mapped the X-gene. As long as he could recreate the gene
>>> using recombinant DNA or something, he could probably insert it
>>> into an ex-mutant.
>>
>> We don't know that it is possible anymore to even artificially
>> reproduce the X-gene. That would probably be the most sensical
>> way to implement Wanda's mass change, that she rewrote reality in
>> a way that the X-gene just can't be created or recreated (while
>> simultaneously removing it from almost everyone.)
>
> If she had done so, there wouldn't be any mutants left. If reality
> says the x-gene doesn't and can't exist, then it doesn't and can't.
> That's obviously not what she did.
And if she wiped the X-gene from 99.9999% of the planet, from the
belief that the world would be better for it, then she shouldn't have
missed several of the highest profile mutants. Particularly when
several are villains.
When you ramp Wanda to such a high power level, you can claim
pretty much anything. Someone wants to claim that those that remain
mutants have a botched alteration that lets their X-genes exist in
a reality that otherwise doesn't allow it? Well, someone could
claim it.
Or what if reality does not allow the creation or duplication of
the X-gene (preventing things like clones,) which was combined with
Wanda removing the X-gene from the vast majority?
Or she just removed the gene and removed what causes it to appear
in the first place, but you can still clone or artificially create
it.
If you want to go with what has been said in the books as well as
what Marvel management has said, M-Day removed the potential
for new mutants. Depending on how you want to take what management
said, you might want to claim that they implied no new mutants would
be created by any means outside of some already planned stories.
Mind, we've already had a variety of dodges. And at least some
of the higher ups were probably already planning different returns...
>> That is why Exodus went to Sinister in the first place. His
>> original
>> plan was to knock down the humans and let the mutant population
>> regrow. But then he found out what apparently everyone else
>> already knew, that there are no new mutants being born. Nor
>> presumably even the believed potential of new mutants being born.
>
> Except Sinister and Exodus are both under the impression that this
> can change.
Exodus just hopes that Sinister can do something. >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Jun 03, 2007 Posts: 48
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(Msg. 48) Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jun 6, 4:09 pm, Dan McEwen <ferro....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> Billy Bissette <bai....TakeThisOut@coastalnet.com> wrote innews:Xns9947A6AFF173whatcholookinat@207.217.125.201:
>
> > When you ramp Wanda to such a high power level, you can claim
> > pretty much anything. Someone wants to claim that those that
> > remain mutants have a botched alteration that lets their X-genes
> > exist in a reality that otherwise doesn't allow it? Well, someone
> > could claim it.
>
> I'd rather claim that there was some sort of mind manipulation or
> possession of Wanda. Or an evil alternate reality Wanda. Or
> someone posing as Wanda. Or a dream. Or...well, I could go on.
> Suffice it to say that I think Wanda was overpowered and underwent
> character defamation. She should sue.
Everything that's happened in Marvel the past three or four years
screams Avengers Forever 2. Immortus was pumping power into her
somehow.
>
> > Or what if reality does not allow the creation or duplication of
> > the X-gene (preventing things like clones,) which was combined
> > with Wanda removing the X-gene from the vast majority?
>
> Could be, but I think we're going to find this isn't the case.
> Actually, we know this isn't the case because Xavier just became a
> mutant again.
>> > Mind, we've already had a variety of dodges. And at least some
> > of the higher ups were probably already planning different
> > returns...
> True, but Harpoon and Riptide were *not* among the 198 - but are
> part of the new Marauders.
They were not among the 198 because no one knew they existed. The
story was supposed to be a report by people with incomplete knowledge.
JLB >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 384
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(Msg. 49) Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Billy Bissette <baines.DeleteThis@coastalnet.com> wrote in
news:Xns9947A6AFF173whatcholookinat@207.217.125.201:
>> If she had done so, there wouldn't be any mutants left. If
>> reality says the x-gene doesn't and can't exist, then it doesn't
>> and can't. That's obviously not what she did.
>
> And if she wiped the X-gene from 99.9999% of the planet, from
> the
> belief that the world would be better for it, then she shouldn't
> have missed several of the highest profile mutants. Particularly
> when several are villains.
True, because they're the ones causing all the problems. Note that
she de-powered both of her siblings. She obviously thinks her own
family is a big problem.
> When you ramp Wanda to such a high power level, you can claim
> pretty much anything. Someone wants to claim that those that
> remain mutants have a botched alteration that lets their X-genes
> exist in a reality that otherwise doesn't allow it? Well, someone
> could claim it.
I'd rather claim that there was some sort of mind manipulation or
possession of Wanda. Or an evil alternate reality Wanda. Or
someone posing as Wanda. Or a dream. Or...well, I could go on.
Suffice it to say that I think Wanda was overpowered and underwent
character defamation. She should sue.
> Or what if reality does not allow the creation or duplication of
> the X-gene (preventing things like clones,) which was combined
> with Wanda removing the X-gene from the vast majority?
Could be, but I think we're going to find this isn't the case.
Actually, we know this isn't the case because Xavier just became a
mutant again.
> Or she just removed the gene and removed what causes it to
> appear
> in the first place, but you can still clone or artificially create
> it.
This seems more likely.
> If you want to go with what has been said in the books as well
> as
> what Marvel management has said, M-Day removed the potential
> for new mutants. Depending on how you want to take what
> management said, you might want to claim that they implied no new
> mutants would be created by any means outside of some already
> planned stories.
I took it to mean that the latent x-factor in all of baseline
humanity was removed. Since it exists in at least 200 people, it
should be able to pass on.
> Mind, we've already had a variety of dodges. And at least some
> of the higher ups were probably already planning different
> returns...
Maybe. We know that mutants-in-progress got the okay to show up.
>>> That is why Exodus went to Sinister in the first place. His
>>> original
>>> plan was to knock down the humans and let the mutant population
>>> regrow. But then he found out what apparently everyone else
>>> already knew, that there are no new mutants being born. Nor
>>> presumably even the believed potential of new mutants being
>>> born.
>>
>> Except Sinister and Exodus are both under the impression that
>> this can change.
>
> Exodus just hopes that Sinister can do something.
True, but Harpoon and Riptide were *not* among the 198 - but are
part of the new Marauders. >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Jun 06, 2007 Posts: 36
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(Msg. 50) Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dan McEwen wrote:
> JLB wrote:
>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>> True, but Harpoon and Riptide were *not* among the 198 - but are
>>> part of the new Marauders.
>>
>> They were not among the 198 because no one knew they existed. The
>> story was supposed to be a report by people with incomplete
>> knowledge.
>
> People didn't know that two leading members of the Marauders
> existed? They found Scalphunter and Arclight easily enough so I
> can't see how those two evaded detection.
Well, Scalphunter and Arclight did show up at Xavier's. Plus, out of
198, the report only listed 160-odd mutants. I think it was 32 mutants
that the government knew about, but were keeping secret.
That said, Harpoon was confirmed depowered during The Collective
incident. Maybe he's still depowered. Maybe he's been repowered. Feral
and her sister were recently repowered by the Weapon X facility, and
others have been repowered by other means.
Also, in recent (adj-less) X-MEN, Pandemic had hundreds of vials of
still-viable mutant blood, some from now Decimated mutants. Wanda's
not the type to think things through, and she obviously didn't include
tissue samples when she said, "No more mutants." >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Jun 06, 2007 Posts: 36
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(Msg. 51) Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dan McEwen wrote:
> Billy Bissette wrote:
> > Okay, you could argue that what Whedon had Kitty take from the
> > vault was just an empty shell. That would require obtaining a
> > new body for Cassandra-Ernst though. It would also involve
> > making a massively complicated and defended container just to
> > trick the X-Men themselves? For what? On the off chance that
> > Cassandra Nova planted a small fragment of herself into someone
> > to try to enact her escape?
>
> Overall, I think AXM doesn't fit anywhere. Until we know
> otherwise, I can't fully explain this. It was a contradictory
> story that didn't really further Cassandra. It almost seems like
> the entire point was to make Scott and Emma, and Peter and Kitty
> into solid couples.
Agreed there. I'd send JoeyQ a dozen roses if he'd just admit AXM is a
non-continuity book. Frankly, I can't see any of it being worth it. Of
course, he probably knows that no one would buy a non-continuity book
that should have ended last year but for the delays.
But I still think Cassandra has been in AXM, is still in AXM, and is
in one of the characters now on Breakworld, and she will be
responsible for something bad happening (either death or the
destruction of Breakworld or both). >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 384
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(Msg. 52) Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:46 am
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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JLB <barnett RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in
news:1181180793.486172.238010@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
> On Jun 6, 4:09 pm, Dan McEwen <ferro... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> True, but Harpoon and Riptide were *not* among the 198 - but are
>> part of the new Marauders.
>
> They were not among the 198 because no one knew they existed. The
> story was supposed to be a report by people with incomplete
> knowledge.
People didn't know that two leading members of the Marauders
existed? They found Scalphunter and Arclight easily enough so I
can't see how those two evaded detection. >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 384
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(Msg. 53) Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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The Black Guardian <blakgard RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in
news:1181197853.016910.281630@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
> Dan McEwen wrote:
>> JLB wrote:
>>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>>> True, but Harpoon and Riptide were *not* among the 198 - but
>>>> are part of the new Marauders.
>>>
>>> They were not among the 198 because no one knew they existed.
>>> The story was supposed to be a report by people with incomplete
>>> knowledge.
>>
>> People didn't know that two leading members of the Marauders
>> existed? They found Scalphunter and Arclight easily enough so I
>> can't see how those two evaded detection.
>
> Well, Scalphunter and Arclight did show up at Xavier's. Plus, out
> of 198, the report only listed 160-odd mutants. I think it was 32
> mutants that the government knew about, but were keeping secret.
Possibly, though I would think at least some mutants lived in places
outside of North America, and so outside of the reach of the US Gov.
(Why Diamond Lil was at Xavier's I cannot fathom.)
> That said, Harpoon was confirmed depowered during The Collective
> incident. Maybe he's still depowered. Maybe he's been repowered.
That was sort of what I was getting at. He's there and confirmed
de-powered. It goes along with the idea that maybe Sinister can
turn ex-mutants into mutants again.
> Feral and her sister were recently repowered by the Weapon X
> facility, and others have been repowered by other means.
Really? Interesting. Where'd that happen?
> Also, in recent (adj-less) X-MEN, Pandemic had hundreds of vials
> of still-viable mutant blood, some from now Decimated mutants.
> Wanda's not the type to think things through, and she obviously
> didn't include tissue samples when she said, "No more mutants."
Ah, so Harpoon and Riptide really could be clones. Obvious
solution: kill off all the ex-mutants, harvest their blood, and
clone them. >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 384
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(Msg. 54) Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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The Black Guardian <blakgard.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in
news:1181199110.595259.106520@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
> Dan McEwen wrote:
>> Billy Bissette wrote:
>> > Okay, you could argue that what Whedon had Kitty take from the
>> > vault was just an empty shell. That would require obtaining a
>> > new body for Cassandra-Ernst though. It would also involve
>> > making a massively complicated and defended container just to
>> > trick the X-Men themselves? For what? On the off chance that
>> > Cassandra Nova planted a small fragment of herself into someone
>> > to try to enact her escape?
>>
>> Overall, I think AXM doesn't fit anywhere. Until we know
>> otherwise, I can't fully explain this. It was a contradictory
>> story that didn't really further Cassandra. It almost seems like
>> the entire point was to make Scott and Emma, and Peter and Kitty
>> into solid couples.
>
> Agreed there. I'd send JoeyQ a dozen roses if he'd just admit AXM
> is a non-continuity book. Frankly, I can't see any of it being
> worth it. Of course, he probably knows that no one would buy a
> non-continuity book that should have ended last year but for the
> delays.
He might not be correct. I read All-Star Superman because I love
the retro-style the book has. It definitely has the feel of a
Silver Age book but clearly set today. I have no problem with AXM
being a non-continuity book. I just don't happen to think it's the
best x-book out there.
> But I still think Cassandra has been in AXM, is still in AXM, and
> is in one of the characters now on Breakworld, and she will be
> responsible for something bad happening (either death or the
> destruction of Breakworld or both).
Possibly, but so far indications are that it was something Cassandra
did to Emma in the past. >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 330
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(Msg. 55) Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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and thus Dan McEwen inscribed ...
> JLB <barnett.RemoveThis@shentel.net> wrote in
>>> Spoilers for Marauders line-up
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>>
>>> Prism, Scalphunter, Random, Harpoon (not previously in the 198),
>> It's possible that Harpoon and Riptide were dead at the time and
>> have been recloned.
> Could be, but that wouldn't bring back an x-gene.
I don't see why not. Either the genetic material was in suspension, ie not registering as viable tissue or it was all computer sequenced, so there was nothing for the magic to take out?
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here, at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>> >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 384
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(Msg. 56) Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:08 am
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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~consul <consul.DeleteThis@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> wrote in
news:f4sf8e$76o$1@gist.usc.edu:
> and thus Dan McEwen inscribed ...
>> JLB <barnett.DeleteThis@shentel.net> wrote in
>>>> Spoilers for Marauders line-up
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> Prism, Scalphunter, Random, Harpoon (not previously in the
>>>> 198),
>>> It's possible that Harpoon and Riptide were dead at the time and
>>> have been recloned.
>> Could be, but that wouldn't bring back an x-gene.
>
> I don't see why not. Either the genetic material was in
> suspension, ie not registering as viable tissue or it was all
> computer sequenced, so there was nothing for the magic to take
> out?
I'm just looking at this as an across the board (with 198
exceptions) no more mutants. Now, that said, the 198 Files only
listed 131 mutants. That leaves plenty of room for Riptide, though
Harpoon is iffy. >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 26
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(Msg. 57) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dan McEwen" <ferroboy.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns994FE13A4927Bferroboygmailcom@130.133.1.4...
>
> I'm just looking at this as an across the board (with 198
> exceptions) no more mutants. Now, that said, the 198 Files only
> listed 131 mutants. That leaves plenty of room for Riptide, though
> Harpoon is iffy.
As you quoted elsewhere, 198 is only O.N.E.'s "earliest confirmed figures",
not the final word on how many mutants were left.
D. >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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Since: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 384
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(Msg. 58) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:44 am
Post subject: Re: Not a lot of success with the latest villains [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Donnacha" <donnacha.delongNOSPAM.TakeThisOut@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in
news:46747c3c$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com:
> "Dan McEwen" <ferroboy.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns994FE13A4927Bferroboygmailcom@130.133.1.4...
>>
>> I'm just looking at this as an across the board (with 198
>> exceptions) no more mutants. Now, that said, the 198 Files only
>> listed 131 mutants. That leaves plenty of room for Riptide,
>> though Harpoon is iffy.
>
> As you quoted elsewhere, 198 is only O.N.E.'s "earliest confirmed
> figures", not the final word on how many mutants were left.
OK, but it also hasn't been contradicted to date. >> Stay informed about: Not a lot of success with the latest villains |
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