Does anyone remember?

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:35:38 +0200, "Talashar"
<Talashar DeleteThis @SPAMBEGONEgmail.com> wrote:

>Treyvin wrote...
>> If memory serves, the difference between Master Mage and Adept Mage
>> was that the master could use the lay lines while the Adept could use
>> the heart stone, if I recall correctly from the EARLY books on use of
>> the heart stone, according to the early books, re Vanyel and Kerowin's
>> grandmother. However in the books on Darian when he becomes a Master
>> he is asked to link to the heartstone, and does so... so isn't he, by
>> definition then an Adept?
>>
>> Is my memory going?
>>
>>
>
>
>I think you're confusing Nodes & Heartstones. only an adept can tap the
>power of nodes, but a heartstone is something different. remember,
>Tashir's family were all linked to the heartstone even though all they
>had was mage-gift potential.

Yep (just finished (another) re-read of several of the Valdemars.
Apprentice and (weak) Journeymen mages rely on internal "power",
STRONG Journeymen and Masters can use the Ley-Lines as well, SOME
Masters seem to be able to use the power of a Heartstone, which seems
to be a "tame" node. Adepts can use whatever power source is within
range.
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

In article <j5h9v216k8c1a53m9oouea4jt2jj4ckie9 DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
"Lurker@The.Threshold" <jamhppKNOT DeleteThis @hotmailKNOT.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:35:38 +0200, "Talashar"
> <Talashar DeleteThis @SPAMBEGONEgmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Treyvin wrote...
> >> If memory serves, the difference between Master Mage and Adept Mage
> >> was that the master could use the lay lines while the Adept could use
> >> the heart stone, if I recall correctly from the EARLY books on use of
> >> the heart stone, according to the early books, re Vanyel and Kerowin's
> >> grandmother. However in the books on Darian when he becomes a Master
> >> he is asked to link to the heartstone, and does so... so isn't he, by
> >> definition then an Adept?
> >>
> >> Is my memory going?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >I think you're confusing Nodes & Heartstones. only an adept can tap the
> >power of nodes, but a heartstone is something different. remember,
> >Tashir's family were all linked to the heartstone even though all they
> >had was mage-gift potential.
>
> Yep (just finished (another) re-read of several of the Valdemars.
> Apprentice and (weak) Journeymen mages rely on internal "power",
> STRONG Journeymen and Masters can use the Ley-Lines as well, SOME
> Masters seem to be able to use the power of a Heartstone, which seems
> to be a "tame" node. Adepts can use whatever power source is within
> range.

It's been a while since I last re-read, but from the "scaling" I've
always understood, you're CLOSE, but not *QUITE* right -
Apprentice and Journeyman are both confined to "internal power", with
particularly strong journeymen SOMETIMES able to tap lines. Masters and
up can tap nodes, but only a full-blown adept can touch a heartstone and
hope to survive. A heartstone is anything *BUT* tame - Confined, yes,
tame, no... Van's "fun" in the palace across the border (I can't get the
name of the country to come to mind right now - Highjorune?) with the
heartstone set there to repair the faultline makes that clear - A
heartstone IS NOT tame. The mess in the vale thqt Firesong ends up
handling (by not handling, because of Van's "ghost" grabbing it and
installing it in the workroom in Haven) is another example, even though
that's a rouge stone that has been deliberately corrupted. There are a
couple other mentions here and there throughout the various Valdemar
books (including the Tarma & Kethry, and Kerowyn tales) that make it
pretty clear that heartstones are *SERIOUSLY* potent medicine that can
only be handled by the very strongest adepts, or groups of masters
supporting each other (and even then, it's only Taleydras trained
masters that even make the attempt - everybody else realizes that they'd
most likely be fried instantly if they so much as made the attempt,
further reinforcing the idea that heartstones are something *VERY*
special and extra potent.)

--
Don Bruder - dakidd DeleteThis @sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

Don Bruder wrote:
> In article <j5h9v216k8c1a53m9oouea4jt2jj4ckie9 DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
> "Lurker@The.Threshold" <jamhppKNOT DeleteThis @hotmailKNOT.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:35:38 +0200, "Talashar"
>> <Talashar DeleteThis @SPAMBEGONEgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Treyvin wrote...
>>>> If memory serves, the difference between Master Mage and Adept Mage
>>>> was that the master could use the lay lines while the Adept could use
>>>> the heart stone, if I recall correctly from the EARLY books on use of
>>>> the heart stone, according to the early books, re Vanyel and Kerowin's
>>>> grandmother. However in the books on Darian when he becomes a Master
>>>> he is asked to link to the heartstone, and does so... so isn't he, by
>>>> definition then an Adept?
>>>>
>>>> Is my memory going?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think you're confusing Nodes & Heartstones. only an adept can tap the
>>> power of nodes, but a heartstone is something different. remember,
>>> Tashir's family were all linked to the heartstone even though all they
>>> had was mage-gift potential.
>> Yep (just finished (another) re-read of several of the Valdemars.
>> Apprentice and (weak) Journeymen mages rely on internal "power",
>> STRONG Journeymen and Masters can use the Ley-Lines as well, SOME
>> Masters seem to be able to use the power of a Heartstone, which seems
>> to be a "tame" node. Adepts can use whatever power source is within
>> range.
>
> It's been a while since I last re-read, but from the "scaling" I've
> always understood, you're CLOSE, but not *QUITE* right -
> Apprentice and Journeyman are both confined to "internal power", with
> particularly strong journeymen SOMETIMES able to tap lines. Masters and
> up can tap nodes, but only a full-blown adept can touch a heartstone and
> hope to survive. A heartstone is anything *BUT* tame - Confined, yes,
> tame, no... Van's "fun" in the palace across the border (I can't get the
> name of the country to come to mind right now - Highjorune?) with the
> heartstone set there to repair the faultline makes that clear - A
> heartstone IS NOT tame. The mess in the vale thqt Firesong ends up
> handling (by not handling, because of Van's "ghost" grabbing it and
> installing it in the workroom in Haven) is another example, even though
> that's a rouge stone that has been deliberately corrupted. There are a
> couple other mentions here and there throughout the various Valdemar
> books (including the Tarma & Kethry, and Kerowyn tales) that make it
> pretty clear that heartstones are *SERIOUSLY* potent medicine that can
> only be handled by the very strongest adepts, or groups of masters
> supporting each other (and even then, it's only Taleydras trained
> masters that even make the attempt - everybody else realizes that they'd
> most likely be fried instantly if they so much as made the attempt,
> further reinforcing the idea that heartstones are something *VERY*
> special and extra potent.)
>

Heartstones are man-made nodes and therefore made very powerful. So
they are indeed a node but with that difference.

Ree.
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

Don Bruder <dakidd.RemoveThis@sonic.net> wrote:

<snip>

> It's been a while since I last re-read, but from the "scaling" I've
> always understood, you're CLOSE, but not *QUITE* right -
> Apprentice and Journeyman are both confined to "internal power", with
> particularly strong journeymen SOMETIMES able to tap lines. Masters and
> up can tap nodes, but only a full-blown adept can touch a heartstone and
> hope to survive. A heartstone is anything *BUT* tame - Confined, yes,
> tame, no... Van's "fun" in the palace across the border (I can't get the
> name of the country to come to mind right now - Highjorune?) with the
> heartstone set there to repair the faultline makes that clear - A
> heartstone IS NOT tame. The mess in the vale thqt Firesong ends up
> handling (by not handling, because of Van's "ghost" grabbing it and
> installing it in the workroom in Haven) is another example, even though
> that's a rouge stone that has been deliberately corrupted. There are a
> couple other mentions here and there throughout the various Valdemar
> books (including the Tarma & Kethry, and Kerowyn tales) that make it
> pretty clear that heartstones are *SERIOUSLY* potent medicine that can
> only be handled by the very strongest adepts, or groups of masters
> supporting each other (and even then, it's only Taleydras trained
> masters that even make the attempt - everybody else realizes that they'd
> most likely be fried instantly if they so much as made the attempt,
> further reinforcing the idea that heartstones are something *VERY*
> special and extra potent.)

Going by Vanyel's training, apprentices can see and even touch/use the
tiniest trickles of the lifeweb as well as their own internal powers -
the latter is easier and, perhaps, safer for the surroundings. Masters
can use larger "streams" and smaller nodes. Adepts can use anything.

Kethry's White Winds School was a bit different, as, apparently, were
all "formal" schools. There, every Adept and perhaps the Masters
gathered power to add to a communal pool (the confinement of which was
never explained) from which all "students" - or at least, all Adepts -
could draw. Something like a heartstone but tamer. Relatively.

Baird
--
Modkin of soc.religion.paganism
Modstaff of alt.religion.wicca.moderated
Newstaff, Inc. at newstaff.com
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

Baird Stafford wrote:
> Don Bruder <dakidd DeleteThis @sonic.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> It's been a while since I last re-read, but from the "scaling" I've
>> always understood, you're CLOSE, but not *QUITE* right -
>> Apprentice and Journeyman are both confined to "internal power", with
>> particularly strong journeymen SOMETIMES able to tap lines. Masters and
>> up can tap nodes, but only a full-blown adept can touch a heartstone and
>> hope to survive. A heartstone is anything *BUT* tame - Confined, yes,
>> tame, no... Van's "fun" in the palace across the border (I can't get the
>> name of the country to come to mind right now - Highjorune?) with the
>> heartstone set there to repair the faultline makes that clear - A
>> heartstone IS NOT tame. The mess in the vale thqt Firesong ends up
>> handling (by not handling, because of Van's "ghost" grabbing it and
>> installing it in the workroom in Haven) is another example, even though
>> that's a rouge stone that has been deliberately corrupted. There are a
>> couple other mentions here and there throughout the various Valdemar
>> books (including the Tarma & Kethry, and Kerowyn tales) that make it
>> pretty clear that heartstones are *SERIOUSLY* potent medicine that can
>> only be handled by the very strongest adepts, or groups of masters
>> supporting each other (and even then, it's only Taleydras trained
>> masters that even make the attempt - everybody else realizes that they'd
>> most likely be fried instantly if they so much as made the attempt,
>> further reinforcing the idea that heartstones are something *VERY*
>> special and extra potent.)
>
> Going by Vanyel's training, apprentices can see and even touch/use the
> tiniest trickles of the lifeweb as well as their own internal powers -
> the latter is easier and, perhaps, safer for the surroundings. Masters
> can use larger "streams" and smaller nodes. Adepts can use anything.
>
> Kethry's White Winds School was a bit different, as, apparently, were
> all "formal" schools. There, every Adept and perhaps the Masters
> gathered power to add to a communal pool (the confinement of which was
> never explained) from which all "students" - or at least, all Adepts -
> could draw. Something like a heartstone but tamer. Relatively.
>
> Baird

I picked up Magic's Pawn today to look. Vanyel is told that any
Tayledras mage can feel and use the nodes (no talk of heartstones yet-
it was just the "valley node") but that "outlander" mages had to be
Adepts to use them. (And that Savil was the only one who could use them
as they did)

But then I got caught up in the book (SFBC omnibus) and am halfway
through Magic's Promise, so it may be a couple days before I get to the
Oath books to see what's been said there. I also don't happen to have my
copies of the Winds/Storm books in the state, to look there. :-/

However, I wouldn't be surprised if Misty had said completely different
things in different books. She herself admits that consistency isn't one
of her strengths. And in the early days, she wasn't using checkers
as she does now. Plus, she also has said that she frankly made some....
errors in judgment... in the early books, and that things she mentioned
just didn't work, as she moved on in the series. Nowadays, she
apparently works out the magic system, especially, ahead of time. Plus
is experienced enough to know that she has to plan ahead.

Kat
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

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Hash: SHA1

Ree <geet.TakeThisOut@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think you're confusing Nodes & Heartstones. only an adept can tap the
>>>> power of nodes, but a heartstone is something different. remember,
>>>> Tashir's family were all linked to the heartstone even though all they
>>>> had was mage-gift potential.
>>> Yep (just finished (another) re-read of several of the Valdemars.
>>> Apprentice and (weak) Journeymen mages rely on internal "power",
>>> STRONG Journeymen and Masters can use the Ley-Lines as well, SOME
>>> Masters seem to be able to use the power of a Heartstone, which seems
>>> to be a "tame" node. Adepts can use whatever power source is within
>>> range.
>>
>
> Heartstones are man-made nodes and therefore made very powerful. So
> they are indeed a node but with that difference.
>
> Ree.

Which lends to the argument that Masters could/could not use
nodes. Case in point: Darian's Master test, where Firesong had him
dealing with both the ley-line and the heartstone while throwing some
rocks at him. Then after he passed, used the heartstone to make the
lagoon.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email: tyketto.TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net
Unix Systems Administrator, | tyketto.TakeThisOut@ozemail.com.au
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:34:54 -0700, Don Bruder <dakidd.DeleteThis@sonic.net>
wrote:

>In article <j5h9v216k8c1a53m9oouea4jt2jj4ckie9.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
> "Lurker@The.Threshold" <jamhppKNOT.DeleteThis@hotmailKNOT.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:35:38 +0200, "Talashar"
>> <Talashar.DeleteThis@SPAMBEGONEgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Treyvin wrote...
>> >> If memory serves, the difference between Master Mage and Adept Mage
>> >> was that the master could use the lay lines while the Adept could use
>> >> the heart stone, if I recall correctly from the EARLY books on use of
>> >> the heart stone, according to the early books, re Vanyel and Kerowin's
>> >> grandmother. However in the books on Darian when he becomes a Master
>> >> he is asked to link to the heartstone, and does so... so isn't he, by
>> >> definition then an Adept?
>> >>
>> >> Is my memory going?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >I think you're confusing Nodes & Heartstones. only an adept can tap the
>> >power of nodes, but a heartstone is something different. remember,
>> >Tashir's family were all linked to the heartstone even though all they
>> >had was mage-gift potential.
>>
>> Yep (just finished (another) re-read of several of the Valdemars.
>> Apprentice and (weak) Journeymen mages rely on internal "power",
>> STRONG Journeymen and Masters can use the Ley-Lines as well, SOME
>> Masters seem to be able to use the power of a Heartstone, which seems
>> to be a "tame" node. Adepts can use whatever power source is within
>> range.
>
>It's been a while since I last re-read, but from the "scaling" I've
>always understood, you're CLOSE, but not *QUITE* right -
>Apprentice and Journeyman are both confined to "internal power", with
>particularly strong journeymen SOMETIMES able to tap lines. Masters and
>up can tap nodes, but only a full-blown adept can touch a heartstone and
>hope to survive. A heartstone is anything *BUT* tame - Confined, yes,
>tame, no... Van's "fun" in the palace across the border (I can't get the
>name of the country to come to mind right now - Highjorune?) with the
>heartstone set there to repair the faultline makes that clear - A
>heartstone IS NOT tame. The mess in the vale thqt Firesong ends up
>handling (by not handling, because of Van's "ghost" grabbing it and
>installing it in the workroom in Haven) is another example, even though
>that's a rouge stone that has been deliberately corrupted. There are a
>couple other mentions here and there throughout the various Valdemar
>books (including the Tarma & Kethry, and Kerowyn tales) that make it
>pretty clear that heartstones are *SERIOUSLY* potent medicine that can
>only be handled by the very strongest adepts, or groups of masters
>supporting each other (and even then, it's only Taleydras trained
>masters that even make the attempt - everybody else realizes that they'd
>most likely be fried instantly if they so much as made the attempt,
>further reinforcing the idea that heartstones are something *VERY*
>special and extra potent.)
Hmm, better go over those again (talking to myself, not you Don) I'd
gotten the impression that, while heartstones ARE much more powerful
than the average node, the power had been "filtered" in some way to
make it easier for (those attuned to it) to use. I think we could
probably toss the 'Stone corrupted by Falconsbane out of the mix since
it wasn't "normal" by any means.
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

Treyvin wrote...
> If memory serves, the difference between Master Mage and Adept Mage
> was that the master could use the lay lines while the Adept could use
> the heart stone, if I recall correctly from the EARLY books on use of
> the heart stone, according to the early books, re Vanyel and Kerowin's
> grandmother. However in the books on Darian when he becomes a Master
> he is asked to link to the heartstone, and does so... so isn't he, by
> definition then an Adept?
>
> Is my memory going?
>

some more thought on the subject:
(the thread has already established the difference between nodes & heartstones)

1. there are several centuries separating Vanyel from Darian - isn't it possible that
there have been advances in magical research in all this time ? while the heartstone
was a roaring mountain lion in Vanyel's time, it might have become a purring cat by
Darian's day.

2. Darian's Tale happens after magic has been redistributed across the land following
the final mage storm. The 1st book of the tale shows the Tayledras rebuilding the channels
for the magic to flow through.
So it may be that "present day" nodes & heartstones carry less power, or just that the power
in them is more tame / less wild than what had been in the past.

--
Ron

A boy's will is the wind's will,
and the thoughts of youth are
long, long thoughts.
-Longfellow
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

On 3/17/2007 2:15 PM, Aphrael wrote:
> Bookwyrm wrote:
[snip]
>> The Obsidian Trilogy
>>
>> The Outstretched Shadow (with James Mallory) - Nov 2003
>> To Light a Candle (with James Mallory) - Oct 2004
>> When Darkness Falls (with James Mallory) - July 2006
>>
>> Wonderful High Fantasy!
>>
>> 'wyrm
>
> Rhaaaaaaaaaaa ! Not fair ! You got the third volume of the trilogy,
> already... It's like the Magician of London that I received a few weeks
> ago I hate to wait so long.
>
> Aphrael...
>

It could be worse: you could get stuck waiting ten+ years for Melanie
Rawn's _The Captal's Tower_ (#3 in the Exiles trilogy)........ _while_
she goes on writing other stuff!

--
victoreia
Goddess of Dark Chocolate
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

In article <45fc0ac7 RemoveThis @news.bnb-lp.com>,
"Talashar" <Talashar RemoveThis @SPAMBEGONEgmail.com> wrote:

> Treyvin wrote...
> > If memory serves, the difference between Master Mage and Adept Mage
> > was that the master could use the lay lines while the Adept could use
> > the heart stone, if I recall correctly from the EARLY books on use of
> > the heart stone, according to the early books, re Vanyel and Kerowin's
> > grandmother. However in the books on Darian when he becomes a Master
> > he is asked to link to the heartstone, and does so... so isn't he, by
> > definition then an Adept?
> >
> > Is my memory going?
> >
>
> some more thought on the subject:
> (the thread has already established the difference between nodes &
> heartstones)
>
> 1. there are several centuries separating Vanyel from Darian - isn't it
> possible that
> there have been advances in magical research in all this time ? while the
> heartstone
> was a roaring mountain lion in Vanyel's time, it might have become a purring
> cat by
> Darian's day.
>
> 2. Darian's Tale happens after magic has been redistributed across the land
> following
> the final mage storm. The 1st book of the tale shows the Tayledras rebuilding
> the channels
> for the magic to flow through.
> So it may be that "present day" nodes & heartstones carry less power, or just
> that the power
> in them is more tame / less wild than what had been in the past.

Uhhh....

At the risk of sounding *TOTALLY* "out of the loop"...

"Darian's Tale"?

"Post Mage-Storm" material?

Hey... waitaminnit!!!!

New, post mage-storm, Valdemar stuff has slipped by me???

Title(s), please! The newest Valdemar material I've laid eyes on was
Skif's tale, "Take A Thief" - and the two volumes featuring Alberich and
his "defection"/integration into Valdemar - "Herald's Honor", and
"Herald's Valor" were the titles, if I'm not mistaken. "Brightly
Burning", too, but that was, of course, before the other three.


WhudImiss?!?!?

--
Don Bruder - dakidd RemoveThis @sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

Don Bruder wrote:

>
> Uhhh....
>
> At the risk of sounding *TOTALLY* "out of the loop"...
>
> "Darian's Tale"?
>
> "Post Mage-Storm" material?
>
> Hey... waitaminnit!!!!
>
> New, post mage-storm, Valdemar stuff has slipped by me???
>
> Title(s), please! The newest Valdemar material I've laid eyes on was
> Skif's tale, "Take A Thief" - and the two volumes featuring Alberich and
> his "defection"/integration into Valdemar - "Herald's Honor", and
> "Herald's Valor" were the titles, if I'm not mistaken. "Brightly
> Burning", too, but that was, of course, before the other three.
>
>
> WhudImiss?!?!?
>


From the FAQ ( http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/abml/ )

The one's that folks are calling Darian's Tale are:
The Owl Books
Owlflight (LD) - 1997
Owlsight (LD) - 1998
Owlknight (LD) - Oct 1999


'wyrm
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

In article <45fc3c84 RemoveThis @news.bnb-lp.com>, Bookwyrm <Bookwyrm RemoveThis @comcast.net>
wrote:

> http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/abml/

Oh... THOSE...

Never got around to them - Always thought they were tied in with one of
her other series, which I've had no interest in whatsoever.

Guess the "Owl" thing should have clued me that they had something to do
with the bird-boys, huh?

Guess I'll have to go grab 'em, then. I've been wanting to see some
post-storm stuff.

Thanks!

--
Don Bruder - dakidd RemoveThis @sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember? 

Don Bruder wrote:
> In article <45fc3c84.RemoveThis@news.bnb-lp.com>, Bookwyrm <Bookwyrm.RemoveThis@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/abml/
>
>
> Oh... THOSE...
>
> Never got around to them - Always thought they were tied in with one of
> her other series, which I've had no interest in whatsoever.
>
> Guess the "Owl" thing should have clued me that they had something to do
> with the bird-boys, huh?
>
> Guess I'll have to go grab 'em, then. I've been wanting to see some
> post-storm stuff.
>
> Thanks!
>


I have a 50/50 sort of thing going with her other series.
Some are OK, and others are blah.
BUT -- I love, love, love this one --

The Obsidian Trilogy

The Outstretched Shadow (with James Mallory) - Nov 2003
To Light a Candle (with James Mallory) - Oct 2004
When Darkness Falls (with James Mallory) - July 2006

Wonderful High Fantasy!

'wyrm
 >> Stay informed about: Does anyone remember?