smeagol and deagol

Em Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:38:44 +0000, jP escreveu:

 > Felix Oscar wrote:
 >
  >> the Robert Foster guide says s&d were cousins. But Gandalf in the
  >> book said they were friends. Although a powerful grandparent ruled
  >> over that area.
  >> what's your verdict?
 >
 > Both. In a small community like that, everyone is a cousin to some
 > degree. And cousins can also be friends. Poor Deagol.

Couldn't "cousin", in this case, mean, as in Shakespearian English,
"kinsman" or "relative"?


--
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: smeagol and deagol 

In article <pan.2004.02.03.21.49.21.841640.TakeThisOut@ig.com.br>,
=?iso-8859-1?q?Jos=E9_de_Paula?= <jose_de_paula.TakeThisOut@ig.com.br> wrote:

 > Em Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:38:44 +0000, jP escreveu:
 >
  > > Felix Oscar wrote:
  > >
   > >> the Robert Foster guide says s&d were cousins. But Gandalf in the
   > >> book said they were friends. Although a powerful grandparent ruled
   > >> over that area.
   > >> what's your verdict?
  > >
  > > Both. In a small community like that, everyone is a cousin to some
  > > degree. And cousins can also be friends. Poor Deagol.
 >
 > Couldn't "cousin", in this case, mean, as in Shakespearian English,
 > "kinsman" or "relative"?

cousin cousine
the love middleearth was not ready for<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: smeagol and deagol 

It seems "José de Paula" wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:
 >Em Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:38:44 +0000, jP escreveu:
  >> In a small community like that, everyone is a cousin to some
  >> degree. And cousins can also be friends. Poor Deagol.
 >
 >Couldn't "cousin", in this case, mean, as in Shakespearian English,
 >"kinsman" or "relative"?

It means that in contemporary English too. Any relative you've got,
outside of direct ancestors or direct descendants, and outside of
aunt/uncle/niece/nephew, is some sort of cousin.

Shameless plug for my Relationship Terms page:
  http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</a>
FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</a>
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more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: smeagol and deagol 

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:49:21 -0200, José de Paula
<jose_de_paula.DeleteThis@ig.com.br> wrote:

 >Em Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:38:44 +0000, jP escreveu:
 >
  >> Felix Oscar wrote:
  >>
   >>> the Robert Foster guide says s&d were cousins. But Gandalf in the
   >>> book said they were friends. Although a powerful grandparent ruled
   >>> over that area.
   >>> what's your verdict?
  >>
  >> Both. In a small community like that, everyone is a cousin to some
  >> degree. And cousins can also be friends. Poor Deagol.
 >
 >Couldn't "cousin", in this case, mean, as in Shakespearian English,
 >"kinsman" or "relative"?

Of course. Many people's nit-picking over Tolkien's exact choice of
word exhibits a woeful ignorance of English usage in addition to a
want of imagination and humour.

In my New England family, we still call kinsfolk 'cousin' (as most of
them actually are). 'Aunt' and 'uncle' are reserved for the senior
citizens (read: old folks).


the softrat
"LotR: You've seen the epic. Now experience the Whole Story!"
mailto:softrat@pobox.com
--
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you
tried. -- Steven Wright<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: smeagol and deagol 

jP jjperil.DeleteThis@ENDSPAMatt.net wrote:

<< Both. In a small community like that, everyone is a cousin to some
degree. And cousins can also be friends. Poor Deagol. >>

Poor Deagol? Seems to me he got off easy not having to spend 600 years enslaved
to a ring. Poor Smeagol.
 >> Stay informed about: smeagol and deagol 

It seems "Stan Brown" wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:
 >Any relative you've got,
 >outside of direct ancestors or direct descendants, and outside of
 >aunt/uncle/niece/nephew, is some sort of cousin.

I should have said "more distant than". Obviously your brother or
sister is not your cousin.

 >Shameless plug for my Relationship Terms page:
  > http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/relation.htm

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</a>
FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</a>
Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</a>
more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: smeagol and deagol 

"Felix Oscar" <tree01.DeleteThis@inreach.com> wrote in message
news:22986a60.0402031010.38393538@posting.google.com...
 > the Robert Foster guide says s&d were cousins. But Gandalf in the
 > book said they were friends. Although a powerful grandparent ruled
 > over that area.
 > what's your verdict?

Perhaps inbreds? "This is Deagol, he's my brother AND my pa."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: smeagol and deagol