Another name source

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:50:33 GMT, pyotr filipivich
<phamp.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Or it could have been a corruption of something else. Maybe "Haven't
>we got a right?" "haven' a ball"? "Haven' a hope"?

Like the Hakawi Indian tribe on "F Troop", whose ancestors migrated
west from Brooklyn after white grifters bought Manhattan Island for
less than market value and moved in and property values started going
to hell...

They got their name hwen they decided to camp for a while when they
got lost in fog and the Chief said to the medicine man "Eh! Whe' the
heck ah we?"

--
mike weber (fairportfan@gmail.com)
============================
My Website: http://electronictiger.com
===================================
No use looking for the answers when the questions are in doubt - Fred leBlanc, "The Love of My Life"
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Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but mike weber <fairportfan.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote on Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:21:17 -0400 in alt.books.david-weber :
>On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:50:33 GMT, pyotr filipivich
><phamp.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Or it could have been a corruption of something else. Maybe "Haven't
>>we got a right?" "haven' a ball"? "Haven' a hope"?
>
>Like the Hakawi Indian tribe on "F Troop", whose ancestors migrated
>west from Brooklyn after white grifters bought Manhattan Island for
>less than market value and moved in and property values started going
>to hell...
>
>They got their name hwen they decided to camp for a while when they
>got lost in fog and the Chief said to the medicine man "Eh! Whe' the
>heck ah we?"

Or the "poohawks" of Tumbleweeds comic strip. Seems that they shot at
a hawk, missed and the majority of them said "poo". they were just a few
votes short of being the "Fingerhawks" ...

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
The two oldest cliches in the book are "The Good Old Days were
better." and "After all, these are Modern TImes."
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On 5 Apr 2007 01:34:47 -0700, "Gary" <gary.s.jordan.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:


>> One would have expected a lot of Haven, Sanctuary, Paradise, New Whatevers
>> from colonists. Mythic names would be from explorers and companies and such.
>> Verdant Vista sounds like a nice place to colonize that wasn't all that nice
>> but then neither was Greenland.

actually at the time of the viking settlement the weather was
significantly better in greenland than it was in iceland.
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Brian McDonald <Brian_knowspam.McDonald.DeleteThis@shaw.ca> wrote in
news:sh6b13lkmr1cjrtc3kde37qj33j1e40eq0@4ax.com:

> On 5 Apr 2007 01:34:47 -0700, "Gary" <gary.s.jordan.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
>>> One would have expected a lot of Haven, Sanctuary, Paradise, New
>>> Whatevers from colonists. Mythic names would be from explorers and
>>> companies and such. Verdant Vista sounds like a nice place to
>>> colonize that wasn't all that nice but then neither was Greenland.
>
> actually at the time of the viking settlement the weather was
> significantly better in greenland than it was in iceland.
>

Dairy farms in Greenland, vineyards in northern England, the age
of the great Cathedral Builders - The Medieval Warm was a huge boon
to civilization. As was the Holocene maximum (the 3000 year warm
period during the bronze age).

Warming may not be all bad (or even mostly bad).
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Brian McDonald wrote:
> On 5 Apr 2007 01:34:47 -0700, "Gary" <gary.s.jordan DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >> One would have expected a lot of Haven, Sanctuary, Paradise, New Whatevers
> >> from colonists. Mythic names would be from explorers and companies and such.
> >> Verdant Vista sounds like a nice place to colonize that wasn't all that nice
> >> but then neither was Greenland.
>
> actually at the time of the viking settlement the weather was
> significantly better in greenland than it was in iceland.

Actually it was not. It was sufficient for similar types of farming as
in Iceland but the weather was not as good as in Iceland at the time.
The areas of Greenland that was settled are at more southerly latitues
than Iceland is but the cold ocean currents and presence of the inland
ice cooled down the atmosphere somewhat. Sufficient area becomes green
each summer for the country to be named "Greenland"
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On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:21:56 -0500, Sean Kennedy
<therealorang DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:


>>
>
>Dairy farms in Greenland, vineyards in northern England, the age
>of the great Cathedral Builders - The Medieval Warm was a huge boon
>to civilization. As was the Holocene maximum (the 3000 year warm
>period during the bronze age).
>
>Warming may not be all bad (or even mostly bad).

kinda depends on how much of your infrastructure vanishes under the
sea as the level comes up doesn't it.

it's the unexpected stuff that's gonna blow the worst i think though.
things like tropical diseases moving further north and stuff like
that. one thing to be really concerned about is that we grow
relatively few kinds of cereals now and if we have something "new" pop
up that could make for an awful lot of hungry people in very short
order.
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"Brian McDonald" <Brian_knowspam.McDonald DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:sh6b13lkmr1cjrtc3kde37qj33j1e40eq0@4ax.com...
> On 5 Apr 2007 01:34:47 -0700, "Gary" <gary.s.jordan DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> One would have expected a lot of Haven, Sanctuary, Paradise, New
>>> Whatevers
>>> from colonists. Mythic names would be from explorers and companies and
>>> such.
>>> Verdant Vista sounds like a nice place to colonize that wasn't all that
>>> nice
>>> but then neither was Greenland.
>
> actually at the time of the viking settlement the weather was
> significantly better in greenland than it was in iceland.

And may be again in a few years. Climate changes which is something the
gloom and doom crowd seem to miss. No matter what we do or don't do we
aren't going to have a stable climate.
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On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 20:20:42 -0500, "deowll" <deowll DeleteThis @bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>
>"Brian McDonald" <Brian_knowspam.McDonald DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:sh6b13lkmr1cjrtc3kde37qj33j1e40eq0@4ax.com...
>> On 5 Apr 2007 01:34:47 -0700, "Gary" <gary.s.jordan DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> One would have expected a lot of Haven, Sanctuary, Paradise, New
>>>> Whatevers
>>>> from colonists. Mythic names would be from explorers and companies and
>>>> such.
>>>> Verdant Vista sounds like a nice place to colonize that wasn't all that
>>>> nice
>>>> but then neither was Greenland.
>>
>> actually at the time of the viking settlement the weather was
>> significantly better in greenland than it was in iceland.
>
>And may be again in a few years. Climate changes which is something the
>gloom and doom crowd seem to miss. No matter what we do or don't do we
>aren't going to have a stable climate.
>

what people seem to gleefully ignore is that the further north or
south you go the more asymptotic the changes get. that big ice sheet
went POOF in 35 days a few years ago and that was expected to take
about 50 years to happen.
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"Brian McDonald" <Brian_knowspam.McDonald RemoveThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:isli13p23q9q6b7flrpnroj1auac4fv53d@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 20:20:42 -0500, "deowll" <deowll RemoveThis @bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Brian McDonald" <Brian_knowspam.McDonald RemoveThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>news:sh6b13lkmr1cjrtc3kde37qj33j1e40eq0@4ax.com...
>>> On 5 Apr 2007 01:34:47 -0700, "Gary" <gary.s.jordan RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> One would have expected a lot of Haven, Sanctuary, Paradise, New
>>>>> Whatevers
>>>>> from colonists. Mythic names would be from explorers and companies and
>>>>> such.
>>>>> Verdant Vista sounds like a nice place to colonize that wasn't all
>>>>> that
>>>>> nice
>>>>> but then neither was Greenland.
>>>
>>> actually at the time of the viking settlement the weather was
>>> significantly better in greenland than it was in iceland.
>>
>>And may be again in a few years. Climate changes which is something the
>>gloom and doom crowd seem to miss. No matter what we do or don't do we
>>aren't going to have a stable climate.
>>
>
> what people seem to gleefully ignore is that the further north or
> south you go the more asymptotic the changes get. that big ice sheet
> went POOF in 35 days a few years ago and that was expected to take
> about 50 years to happen.

The largest issue besides coastal flooding, which isn't much of an issue
where I live, is that many people are worried about the gulf stream current
stopping. I'm not sure what happened to cause the last such claimed event
(Yes I do understand that a lot of Greenland is supposed to have melted and
that water from streams in Siberia and North American dumped fresh water
into the Artic but I don't know what the sun was doing.) but the surface
waters driven by trade winds almost certainly didn't stop and the deep water
currents most likely keep moving in some direction. On the other hand the
North Atlantic apparently did get very cold and Europe had a major could
snap.

I'm not sure how long a bubble of low salinity water could exist below the
surface south of Greenland and block deep ocean currents. One would think as
soon as the climate turned cold in the region the surface waters coming out
of the south would have cooled and precipitation on Greenland would have
caused the water to be highly saline and restarted sinking. I still think
the modals are missing something. Besides climate has fluctuated at least
this much repeatedly and sometimes the gulf stream stops but does it do so
all the time? This is not clear to me.

The issue where I live may be long dry summers. The main grain crop is corn.
Maybe it needs to be winter wheat not that we get a lot of snow in the
winter but winter wheat does do well around here and dry summers don't
bother it.
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On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 21:36:10 -0500, "deowll" <deowll.TakeThisOut@bellsouth.net>
wrote:


>The largest issue besides coastal flooding, which isn't much of an issue
>where I live, is that many people are worried about the gulf stream current
>stopping. I'm not sure what happened to cause the last such claimed event
>(Yes I do understand that a lot of Greenland is supposed to have melted and
>that water from streams in Siberia and North American dumped fresh water
>into the Artic but I don't know what the sun was doing.) but the surface
>waters driven by trade winds almost certainly didn't stop and the deep water
>currents most likely keep moving in some direction. On the other hand the
>North Atlantic apparently did get very cold and Europe had a major could
>snap.
>
>I'm not sure how long a bubble of low salinity water could exist below the
>surface south of Greenland and block deep ocean currents. One would think as
>soon as the climate turned cold in the region the surface waters coming out
>of the south would have cooled and precipitation on Greenland would have
>caused the water to be highly saline and restarted sinking. I still think
>the modals are missing something. Besides climate has fluctuated at least
>this much repeatedly and sometimes the gulf stream stops but does it do so
>all the time? This is not clear to me.
>
>The issue where I live may be long dry summers. The main grain crop is corn.
>Maybe it needs to be winter wheat not that we get a lot of snow in the
>winter but winter wheat does do well around here and dry summers don't
>bother it.
>
>
>
>
greenland isn't supposed to be the villain of the piece last time
round. seems at the end of the last ice age there was a rather large
meltwater lake and by large i mean drop ontario into it and have
plenty of room left over. when the ice jam popped that flowed into
the north atlantic and the change in salinity stopped the conveyor for
a number of years. in theory there is enough ice in greenland to do
the same if it released as a single pulse somehow.
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Brian McDonald wrote:

> greenland isn't supposed to be the villain of the piece last time
> round. seems at the end of the last ice age there was a rather large
> meltwater lake and by large i mean drop ontario into it and have
> plenty of room left over. when the ice jam popped that flowed into
> the north atlantic and the change in salinity stopped the conveyor for
> a number of years. in theory there is enough ice in greenland to do
> the same if it released as a single pulse somehow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Agassiz

There was another freshwater lake where the Baltic Sea is now, with a
glacier across the mouth. From what I read, the surge when that let go
nearly scoured Scotland clean. Been a few years since I read anything
about that one.

I think claims that the present melting of the northern ice cap poses a
danger to the Atlantic heat conveyor are grossly overstated.
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On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 18:57:05 -0700, Offbreed
<offbreed_106.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Brian McDonald wrote:
>
>> greenland isn't supposed to be the villain of the piece last time
>> round. seems at the end of the last ice age there was a rather large
>> meltwater lake and by large i mean drop ontario into it and have
>> plenty of room left over. when the ice jam popped that flowed into
>> the north atlantic and the change in salinity stopped the conveyor for
>> a number of years. in theory there is enough ice in greenland to do
>> the same if it released as a single pulse somehow.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Agassiz
>
>There was another freshwater lake where the Baltic Sea is now, with a
>glacier across the mouth. From what I read, the surge when that let go
>nearly scoured Scotland clean. Been a few years since I read anything
>about that one.
>
>I think claims that the present melting of the northern ice cap poses a
>danger to the Atlantic heat conveyor are grossly overstated.

the geography in greenland doesn't look like it would support the
formation of a large enough lake to do much to the gulf stream.
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In article <0j7n13dsifi5oc9re1c1064nt2a3mdrhq7.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
Brian McDonald <Brian_knowspam.McDonald.DeleteThis@shaw.ca> wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 18:57:05 -0700, Offbreed
> <offbreed_106.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Brian McDonald wrote:
> >
> >> greenland isn't supposed to be the villain of the piece last time
> >> round. seems at the end of the last ice age there was a rather large
> >> meltwater lake and by large i mean drop ontario into it and have
> >> plenty of room left over. when the ice jam popped that flowed into
> >> the north atlantic and the change in salinity stopped the conveyor for
> >> a number of years. in theory there is enough ice in greenland to do
> >> the same if it released as a single pulse somehow.
> >
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Agassiz
> >
> >There was another freshwater lake where the Baltic Sea is now, with a
> >glacier across the mouth. From what I read, the surge when that let go
> >nearly scoured Scotland clean. Been a few years since I read anything
> >about that one.
> >
> >I think claims that the present melting of the northern ice cap poses a
> >danger to the Atlantic heat conveyor are grossly overstated.
>
> the geography in greenland doesn't look like it would support the
> formation of a large enough lake to do much to the gulf stream.

Take away the ice and Greenland becomes a ring of mountains surrounding
a large central basin, with a narrow channel to the ocean. Put an ice
dam across that channel and it could hold a huge amount of fresh water.

Of course, melting that ice would take quite a bit of warming. Some
current studies show that the Greenland ice sheet is actually getting
thicker because of global warming. Warming makes for more water vapour
in the air, which makes for more snow falling in central Greenland.

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