A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed....

"Rob Bartlett \(MN\)" <sales DeleteThis @xtralite.com> wrote in message news:<10b6vna3qjstcda DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>...

 > As for what to do for a movie version of The Hobbit (I hope this happens) -
 > I don't think any unusual narration or film devices need to be used... just
 > introduce the story straight away. Or at most maybe show an aged Samwise
 > reading from the great Red book to his children - no need to complicate the
 > storyline or invent anything to distract from the story itself!

Yeah, just start right off with Ian Holm standing outside Bag End and
Ian McKellan coming up to the door. Fans of the Lord of the Rings
movies will recognize Bilbo and Gandalf immediately. There's no need
to go to lengths explaining that this is a prequel. That'll come out
naturally in the course of their dialog.

Fortunately, and oddly, the only two characters you'd have in common
between LotR and The Hobbit are two who don't age physically during
the sixty-odd year gap between the two stories. Bilbo stays the same
apparent age because he has the One Ring, and Gandalf does because
he's a wizard. So you can use the same actors without conflicting
with the books.

I hope Jackson & Co have it in them to do The Hobbit while they still
have all their Tolkien moviemaking infrastructure. I wouldn't be
surprised to hear they are so sick of hobbits they never want to see a
bare hairy foot again in their lives. But I'd love to see a competent
film version of The Hobbit, and it'd be great to have Holm and
McKellan reprise their roles.

I'm still waiting to see a really good movie dragon. The one in
Dragonheart was ok visually, and the one in Dragonslayer is realistic
(hmm, a "realistic" dragon. you know what I mean) even with the dated
special effects. But Smaug is the definitive fantasy dragon, and a
Smaug put on film is a golden opportunity for someone to outdo
themselves. I think the battle between Smaug and the Men of Laketown
could be among the all-time great action sequences.

Orlando Bloom could do a cameo in the palace of the Wood Elves.
Legolas wouldn't have aged in the interim, either.

Oh, and Andy Serkis was doing a great job as Gollum. Bring him and
his animators right on back, too.

If someone is developing the software to synthesize voices of
imaginary creatures, they could make a great debut with Smaug. The
dragon speaks a lot, and a dragon shouldn't sound like a human (that
was the problem with Dragonheart; listening to Sean Connory pretending
to be a dragon didn't do it for me). I was hoping they'd have really
unusual synthesized voices for the Ents, but they just used human
actors.

Gable<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

Matt Gable wrote:

 > Fortunately, and oddly, the only two characters you'd have in common
 > between LotR and The Hobbit are two who don't age physically during
 > the sixty-odd year gap between the two stories. Bilbo stays the same
 > apparent age because he has the One Ring, and Gandalf does because
 > he's a wizard.

Three characters: Gollum.

--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

Bill O'Meally <OMeallyMD.RemoveThis@wise.rr.com> wrote:
 > Matt Gable wrote:
 >
  >> Fortunately, and oddly, the only two characters you'd have in common
  >> between LotR and The Hobbit are two who don't age physically during
  >> the sixty-odd year gap between the two stories. Bilbo stays the same
  >> apparent age because he has the One Ring, and Gandalf does because
  >> he's a wizard.
 >
 > Three characters: Gollum.

Four: Elrond.
[Five: Gloin.]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

Matt Gable <mgable.RemoveThis@speakeasy.org> wrote:

 > If someone is developing the software to synthesize voices of
 > imaginary creatures, they could make a great debut with Smaug. The
 > dragon speaks a lot, and a dragon shouldn't sound like a human (that
 > was the problem with Dragonheart; listening to Sean Connory pretending
 > to be a dragon didn't do it for me). I was hoping they'd have really
 > unusual synthesized voices for the Ents, but they just used human
 > actors.

I believe they did do a lot of audio manipulation on John Rhys-Davies
voice for Treebeard. I'd prefer that method, unless they really improve
synthesised voices, as they still sound very fake.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

In article <6b9d6b7e.0405281950.41c5f7a5.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>,
mgable.DeleteThis@speakeasy.org says...
 >
 > Fortunately, and oddly, the only two characters you'd have in common
 > between LotR and The Hobbit are two who don't age physically during
 > the sixty-odd year gap between the two stories. Bilbo stays the same
 > apparent age because he has the One Ring, and Gandalf does because
 > he's a wizard. So you can use the same actors without conflicting
 > with the books.

Ian Holm might actually be getting to the point that he doesn't want
to do such strenuous acting, though.

And, anyway, they "youthed" Ian for "The Hobbit" flashback in the
movie -- I suspect they'll just recast the actor.

Elrond is, of course, the third character in common, but we don't
have to worry about him aging, either.

 > I was hoping they'd have really
 > unusual synthesized voices for the Ents, but they just used human
 > actors.

John Rhys-Davies, in fact, and they ran the sound through multiple
wooden baffle things to change it's quality. Plus, he adjusted the
sound and cadence himself, and did things like speaking on the
inhale, which humans don't do, to make it sound different.

Michelle
Flutist

--
Drift on a river, That flows through my arms
Drift as I'm singing to you
I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm
And holding you, I'm smiling, too
Here in my arms, Safe from all harm
Holding you, I'm smiling, too
-- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> Bill O'Meally <OMeallyMD.TakeThisOut@wise.rr.com> wrote:
>> Matt Gable wrote:
>>
>>> Fortunately, and oddly, the only two characters you'd have in common
>>> between LotR and The Hobbit are two who don't age physically during
>>> the sixty-odd year gap between the two stories. Bilbo stays the
>>> same apparent age because he has the One Ring, and Gandalf does
>>> because he's a wizard.
>>
>> Three characters: Gollum.
>
> Four: Elrond.

Ah, yes. Of course.

> [Five: Gloin.]

I get the impression that Gloin looked older in LotR: he now had a white
beard.

--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

Wes ðu Michelle J. Haines hal!

 > and did things like speaking on the inhale, which humans don't do

Except Norwegians!

(In Norwegian, 'yes' is said on the inhale in certain contexts).

--
Meneldil

If you don't care where you are, then you can never be lost.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

"John D. Goulden" <jgoulden_news.DeleteThis@goulden.org> wrote in message news:<c8ako112f7c.DeleteThis@news1.newsguy.com>...
  > > Except that in PJ's version, the Hobbits came back to an unsullied
  > > Shire. Adding a scouring scene wouldn't make sense.
 >
 > Actually, in PJ's version we don't see them returning to the Shire at all.
 > We do see the hobbits in an unsullied Shire after some indeterminate time
 > has passed, leaving a nice convenient gap for the (unshown) Scouring.

The implication in Jacksons tale is that the hobbits have returned to
a shire untouched by the events that the four protagonists have been
so deeply embedded in - it's just the same as when they left it. This
is thematically - and emotively - the opposite to the scouring as
portrayed by Tolkien. It's not credible to attempt to combine the two
post tale telling.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

"Cemetery Mink, MD" <no email address available> wrote in message news:<40ac5f5d$0$8987$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
 > Wendy <wendypart RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote in message
 > news:kIKdnfhHs66k1TbdRVn-vA@comcast.com...
  > >
  > > "John D. Goulden" <jgoulden_news RemoveThis @goulden.org> wrote in message
  > > news:c8ako112f7c@news1.newsguy.com...
   > > > > Except that in PJ's version, the Hobbits came back to an unsullied
   > > > > Shire. Adding a scouring scene wouldn't make sense.
   > > >
   > > > Actually, in PJ's version we don't see them returning to the Shire at
 > all.
   > > > We do see the hobbits in an unsullied Shire after some indeterminate
 > time
   > > > has passed, leaving a nice convenient gap for the (unshown) Scouring.
   > > >
   > > > --
   > > > John Goulden
   > > >
   > > >
  > > The problem I see with this approach is a lack of any common characters.
  > > None of the characters in the Hobbit are present during the scouring of
 > the
  > > shire.
  > >
  > > W
  > >
  > >
 >
 > I suppose PJ would have to rewrite the scouring somewhat, certainly. Have
 > it occur maybe a year after the War of the Ring, or something like that.
 > I understand PJ had done a pretty good job with other changes.

Well, let's just say that that has been a topic of considerable debate
around these parts.

 > Having
 > Aragorn give the barrow-blades to the Hobbits, instead of whatever it is
 > that happened in the books, etc.
 > I think he could create a scouring story for the movie, which would be
 > consistent with the movie's plot, while serving the same sort of purpose
 > that Tolkien's scouring did in the novel. (In some small regard he has done
 > that already. Since, without the scouring, Frodo was not given the
 > opportunity to emerge as a hero, PJ had him throw Gollum into the fires of
 > Mt Doom (thus giving Frodo his "hero" moment there.)
 >

Ahem.
A) How does movieFrodo throwing Gollum into the fire make him more
"heroic" then bookFrodo? I didn't interpret it as an act of heroism at
all.

B) Just a side note - but Sam was the hero here anyway, if one had to
choose.

C) Tolkien makes it quite clear that Frodo played only a passive role
in the Scouring, urging the others to avoid shedding blood wherever
possible. Thus the source of Sam's ire - Merry and Pippin are feted as
heroes by the Shirefolk because of their shiny armour, agressiveness
and skill in battle, but Frodo, (who burnt his soul on the ring) is
almost completely ignored.


 > As to common characters... If it's just two parallel stories, I don't see
 > that being much of a problem. More important would be some sort of
 > complementary themes (perhaps emphasise The Hobbit as being about a journey
 > outside of home, while emphasising the Scouring as being about protecting
 > ones home [shrugs])

Except that that is not a theme that comes from the scouring - almost
the opposite in fact. Their homes are already spoilt when they arrive
back, partly because they did not turn back when they could have, and
partly because that is the cost of mercy (or pity) when shown to the
undeserving.


 > Also, in terms of connections, the Hobbits as a whole
 > can be seen as a character, with the stories being relevant to each other in
 > how show pre and post innocence lost.

I suppose in a way there are simliar themes in the seperate hobbit
threads, there is certainly an element of innocence lost. There is
lots of other things there as well - attaining glory, but foregoing it
for the things you had before (but not without regrets), friendship
and loyalty - heaps of stuff!

Importantly though, the hobbits are also different - Pippin the
Aristocrat is linked with Gondor and the men of Numenor, Merry (from
Buckland, a civilisation on the edge of the wild) with the wilder
Rohirrim. Similiarly, Frodo is bound up with the Elves, and Sam seems
bound always to the Shire, the epitomy of Hobbitness.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

Michelle J. Haines <mhaines.TakeThisOut@io.nanc.com> wrote:

 > John Rhys-Davies, in fact, and they ran the sound through multiple
 > wooden baffle things to change it's quality. Plus, he adjusted the
 > sound and cadence himself, and did things like speaking on the
 > inhale, which humans don't do, to make it sound different.

I just spent several seconds trying to speak 'on the inhale'.
It seems to be impossible.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

Christopher Kreuzer <spamgard DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Michelle J. Haines <mhaines DeleteThis @io.nanc.com> wrote:

>> John Rhys-Davies, in fact, and they ran the sound through multiple
>> wooden baffle things to change it's quality. Plus, he adjusted the
>> sound and cadence himself, and did things like speaking on the
>> inhale, which humans don't do, to make it sound different.

> I just spent several seconds trying to speak 'on the inhale'.
> It seems to be impossible.

Interesting idea. I just tried it. I cannot speak any long sentences
without a pause, but a few quick words are ok. Sounds quite funny, and
very unlike Treebeard in the movie.

The trick seems to be that you need a lot more breath "on the inhale"
to make the sound audible, and it also "feels" differently on the vocal
chords (is that the right word?).

- Dirk
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

Sam's the Man <samdekat.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

> but Frodo, (who burnt his soul on the ring) is
> almost completely ignored.

"...burnt his soul on the ring..."

That's an interesting way of putting it!

> Importantly though, the hobbits are also different - Pippin the
> Aristocrat is linked with Gondor and the men of Numenor, Merry (from
> Buckland, a civilisation on the edge of the wild) with the wilder
> Rohirrim. Similiarly, Frodo is bound up with the Elves, and Sam seems
> bound always to the Shire, the epitomy of Hobbitness.

Never thought of it that way before. Interesting, though maybe
stretching the point slightly and stereotyping the hobbits somewhat.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed.... 

Sam's the Man <samdekat.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8e2ac15.0405292016.72a231ef@posting.google.com...
> "Cemetery Mink, MD" <no email address available> wrote in message
news:<40ac5f5d$0$8987$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
> > Wendy <wendypart.RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:kIKdnfhHs66k1TbdRVn-vA@comcast.com...
> > >
> > > "John D. Goulden" <jgoulden_news.RemoveThis@goulden.org> wrote in message
> > > news:c8ako112f7c@news1.newsguy.com...
> > > > > Except that in PJ's version, the Hobbits came back to an unsullied
> > > > > Shire. Adding a scouring scene wouldn't make sense.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, in PJ's version we don't see them returning to the Shire
at
> > all.
> > > > We do see the hobbits in an unsullied Shire after some indeterminate
> > time
> > > > has passed, leaving a nice convenient gap for the (unshown)
Scouring.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > John Goulden
> > > >
> > > >
> > > The problem I see with this approach is a lack of any common
characters.
> > > None of the characters in the Hobbit are present during the scouring
of
> > the
> > > shire.
> > >
> > > W
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I suppose PJ would have to rewrite the scouring somewhat, certainly.
Have
> > it occur maybe a year after the War of the Ring, or something like that.
> > I understand PJ had done a pretty good job with other changes.
>
> Well, let's just say that that has been a topic of considerable debate
> around these parts.
>
> > Having
> > Aragorn give the barrow-blades to the Hobbits, instead of whatever it is
> > that happened in the books, etc.
> > I think he could create a scouring story for the movie, which would be
> > consistent with the movie's plot, while serving the same sort of purpose
> > that Tolkien's scouring did in the novel. (In some small regard he has
done
> > that already. Since, without the scouring, Frodo was not given the
> > opportunity to emerge as a hero, PJ had him throw Gollum into the fires
of
> > Mt Doom (thus giving Frodo his "hero" moment there.)
> >
>
> Ahem.
> A) How does movieFrodo throwing Gollum into the fire make him more
> "heroic" then bookFrodo? I didn't interpret it as an act of heroism at
> all.
>

Saw the movie again on DVD, and you're right. Seeing this in the cinema, I
remembered Frodo throwing himself and Gollum into the Fires of Doom quite
deliberately. Sacrificing himself to destroy the ring (and, unfortunately,
Gollum.)
But, on a second viewing, it was pretty clear to me that Frodo and Gollum
were simply fighting for the ring (with Frodo probably still under it's
control.)

> B) Just a side note - but Sam was the hero here anyway, if one had to
> choose.
>
> C) Tolkien makes it quite clear that Frodo played only a passive role
> in the Scouring, urging the others to avoid shedding blood wherever
> possible. Thus the source of Sam's ire - Merry and Pippin are feted as
> heroes by the Shirefolk because of their shiny armour, agressiveness
> and skill in battle, but Frodo, (who burnt his soul on the ring) is
> almost completely ignored.
>

I haven't read the book, but I seem to reading something which said that
Frodo reached the culmination of his personal journey, by choosing to spare
Saruman. In this case, Frodo has become a hero by choosing to do "the right
thing," not by any great skill in battle. But, the important thing is, he
does make the right choice (at least according to Tolkien) there, but failed
to do so previously in Mt Doom.

>
> > As to common characters... If it's just two parallel stories, I don't
see
> > that being much of a problem. More important would be some sort of
> > complementary themes (perhaps emphasise The Hobbit as being about a
journey
> > outside of home, while emphasising the Scouring as being about
protecting
> > ones home [shrugs])
>
> Except that that is not a theme that comes from the scouring - almost
> the opposite in fact. Their homes are already spoilt when they arrive
> back, partly because they did not turn back when they could have, and
> partly because that is the cost of mercy (or pity) when shown to the
> undeserving.
>
>
> > Also, in terms of connections, the Hobbits as a whole
> > can be seen as a character, with the stories being relevant to each
other in
> > how show pre and post innocence lost.
>
> I suppose in a way there are simliar themes in the seperate hobbit
> threads, there is certainly an element of innocence lost. There is
> lots of other things there as well - attaining glory, but foregoing it
> for the things you had before (but not without regrets), friendship
> and loyalty - heaps of stuff!
>
> Importantly though, the hobbits are also different - Pippin the
> Aristocrat is linked with Gondor and the men of Numenor, Merry (from
> Buckland, a civilisation on the edge of the wild) with the wilder
> Rohirrim. Similiarly, Frodo is bound up with the Elves, and Sam seems
> bound always to the Shire, the epitomy of Hobbitness.
 >> Stay informed about: A thought on how "The Hobbit" should be filmed....